| --- Log opened Wed Mar 26 11:04:41 2008 | ||
| * viking-ice goes getting a cup full of coffee :) | 11:06 | |
| wwoods | First thing | 11:08 |
|---|---|---|
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F9Beta review | 11:08 | |
| wwoods | F9Beta is out! Yay! | 11:08 |
| viking-ice | whobby | 11:08 |
| wwoods | I want to give some special thanks to jds2001 for helping out a *lot* with the testing | 11:09 |
| wwoods | (aka JonStanley on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/Beta) | 11:09 |
| poelcat | +1 ! | 11:09 |
| f13 | a bit +1 | 11:09 |
| viking-ice | +1 | 11:09 |
| EvilBob | jds2001 rocks | 11:10 |
| wwoods | Yeah we need to clone him off a few times. | 11:10 |
| wwoods | and a couple other "thanks"es to jlaska and warren for pitching in as well | 11:10 |
| wwoods | as for the rest of you lazy bums... | 11:11 |
| * wwoods kidding, kidding | 11:11 | |
| warren | I helped? | 11:11 |
| wwoods | warren: you're listed as the tester for at least one test case | 11:11 |
| warren | oh | 11:11 |
| wwoods | QA/TestCases/InstallSourceHardDrive | 11:11 |
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| wwoods | So overall, I feel like the Beta testing went pretty well | 11:12 |
| wwoods | no major panics, and the only big last-minute change was reverting a *previous* big change | 11:12 |
| wwoods | (the evdev weirdness) | 11:12 |
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| wwoods | But you'll note.. we don't really have a TestPlan for Live images | 11:13 |
| wwoods | that's not cool! | 11:13 |
| * jlaska tunes in after another meeting | 11:13 | |
| jlaska | jds2001: real nice work! :) | 11:13 |
| viking-ice | we are still faced with keyboard layout/model weirdness other than US... | 11:14 |
| wwoods | viking-ice: really? I thought that reverting the evdev changes had reverted most of that (although you may need to clean out your xorg.conf to the pre-evdev state) | 11:14 |
| wwoods | ooh, I see a testing report on -test-list from viking-ice - thanks! | 11:15 |
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| wwoods | so, yes, I'd like to put together a TestPlan for Fedora9Live (like http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install) | 11:16 |
| wwoods | so we have a plan for testing Live when the Preview Release comes | 11:16 |
| wwoods | jlaska: is there a template for test plans? | 11:17 |
| jlaska | wwoods: darn right | 11:17 |
| * wwoods too lazy to search the wiki | 11:17 | |
| wwoods | nice | 11:17 |
| wwoods | I know there's a testcase template | 11:17 |
| wwoods | someday we'll have a tool that's better than the wiki for this stuff | 11:17 |
| jlaska | wwoods: brain storm ... what sort of topics would you like to see covered? | 11:17 |
| wwoods | (anyone who wants to volunteer for that, talk to me and I will shower you with lavish praise) | 11:18 |
| jlaska | wwoods: I have to say I *love* wiki for the documentation side of this (not so much the results ... but it works) | 11:18 |
| wwoods | jlaska: yeah, probably just a wiki and a couple clever things to track what's in the wiki and whatnot | 11:18 |
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| wwoods | lessee. Live test cases. | 11:18 |
| wwoods | boot from media, boot from USB stick | 11:18 |
| wwoods | USB with persistence | 11:18 |
| wwoods | test the 'verify image' function | 11:19 |
| jlaska | wwoods: good side-topic ... which of this is installation related vs something_else (e.g. persistence)? | 11:19 |
| wwoods | jeremy: do the live images still do run-from-memory? | 11:19 |
| wwoods | jlaska: well, there should be a couple minor installation tests here | 11:19 |
| jeremy | wwoods: we don't show it as an option. the bits are all still there | 11:19 |
| wwoods | since we allow you to install from Live | 11:19 |
| jlaska | wwoods: yeah, clumens mentioned during the last FUDCON of adding an InstallationSourceLiveCd test | 11:20 |
| wwoods | but other than the funky way we write the image, installing Live is a proper subset of the normal installer cases | 11:20 |
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| wwoods | at least for partitioning | 11:20 |
| wwoods | no choice of package selection or install source | 11:21 |
| wwoods | nor UI really | 11:21 |
| wwoods | it's so much simpler.. so.. beautifully easy to test.. | 11:21 |
| * wwoods in love | 11:21 | |
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| wwoods | er. ahem. anyway. | 11:21 |
| wwoods | partitioning is covered by Fedora9Install so we really only need a couple of simple install tests to make sure it's DTRT | 11:22 |
| wwoods | like: normall install (fill drive), resizing target system (esp. if the target is NTFS) | 11:22 |
| wwoods | testing RAID / encryption / etc can be left to the normal install test | 11:22 |
| wwoods | since it should be exactly the same codepaths in both places | 11:22 |
| wwoods | anyway, we can fill in the blanks there later | 11:24 |
| wwoods | suffice it to say: Live test plan needed before PR | 11:24 |
| wwoods | anything else people want to say about the testing of f9beta and how we could improve before f9pr/f9final? | 11:26 |
| poelcat | wwoods: how do the test matrixes work... IOW the beta matrix was filled out before beta shipped... is there another matrix to fill out in the meantime or how does it work? | 11:26 |
| wwoods | poelcat: the test results basically constitute acceptance criteria | 11:26 |
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| wwoods | in other words: rel-eng makes candidates, we test 'em (and put results up on the wiki) | 11:26 |
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| wwoods | once we run out of time, if the results are good enough we ship | 11:27 |
| poelcat | once something ships do we track test results after that? | 11:27 |
| wwoods | if anyone's doing testing, sure | 11:28 |
| wwoods | that's welcomed and encouraged | 11:28 |
| wwoods | but it's not required | 11:28 |
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| poelcat | i'd like to help out more as I assume others would too... just wondering how to do that w/o a framework | 11:29 |
| poelcat | in the period between now and PR | 11:29 |
| poelcat | IOW if we've released the beta to get community testing | 11:30 |
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| poelcat | where can the community record its results? | 11:30 |
| wwoods | same place | 11:31 |
| viking-ice | one question are the exact same images in f9pr and fr9final , just wondering if we don't need to test final for some time. as in the final release images needs let's say ca a week of testing before given to public and if something is needs fixing and gets fixed another couple of days of testing are needed for that *fixed final* | 11:31 |
| wwoods | viking-ice: f9pr is *intended* to be pretty much final | 11:31 |
| wwoods | but we *always* end up pulling in a bunch of last-minute fixes | 11:32 |
| viking-ice | sweet ok.. but we cant put fixes in final and then release it without testing.. | 11:32 |
| viking-ice | because those fixes might break some other stuff.. | 11:32 |
| wwoods | right.. the way it works is.. we'll get f9pr | 11:32 |
| viking-ice | ok | 11:32 |
| wwoods | test, find bugs, they get fixed, new snapshot | 11:32 |
| wwoods | that will repeat until we're really really close to finished | 11:33 |
| wwoods | we'll call that f9rc (release candidate) - that's supposed to happen.. a couple days before f9final, I forget when | 11:33 |
| wwoods | so then we have a week to find any last-minute showstopper bugs | 11:33 |
| poelcat | wwoods: oh I thought that would get too confusing because you aren't testing the same bits and thus the results are comparable? | 11:33 |
| poelcat | s/are/are not | 11:34 |
| wwoods | if nothing insanely bad happens, f9rc becomes f9final | 11:34 |
| wwoods | and then we party | 11:34 |
| wwoods | poelcat: the f9beta bits are frozen; people can test f9beta and report its status on the results page | 11:34 |
| wwoods | but rawhide has moved on | 11:34 |
| poelcat | but maybe i've been tainted by too much 'enterprise' testing ;-) | 11:34 |
| wwoods | so there's more value in just testing rawhide and filing bugs | 11:35 |
| poelcat | okay i see what you are saying... so people testing 'the beta' can put results in the matrix | 11:35 |
| wwoods | right | 11:35 |
| poelcat | but there is no matrix for beta+updates (rawhide)? | 11:35 |
| wwoods | no | 11:35 |
| poelcat | okay | 11:36 |
| wwoods | we'd need a new matrix every day | 11:36 |
| wwoods | that way lies madness | 11:36 |
| wwoods | we want to automate tier1 | 11:36 |
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| wwoods | so we actually *do* get an auto-generated matrix, every day, for rawhide | 11:36 |
| wwoods | but filling it out by hand is insanity | 11:36 |
| wwoods | does that make sense? | 11:37 |
| poelcat | yes, i agree and I'm also mulling over a proposing a new model that is somewhere in between | 11:38 |
| wwoods | mull away, sir. I'd be happy to hear about it | 11:38 |
| wwoods | viking-ice: so getting back to your question - we get f9pr (preview release) to test, that's 10 April | 11:39 |
| wwoods | then a bunch of snapshots, then 22 April we'll have the f9rc which *really* should be the final bits | 11:39 |
| poelcat | wwoods: will do if I can come up with something that makes sense | 11:40 |
| wwoods | assuming there's nothing horribly wrong with f9rc, we release it as F9 (final) on 29 April | 11:40 |
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| wwoods | if we find something really bad we hit the brakes and delay the release until it's fixed. | 11:42 |
| viking-ice | ok well in theory thinks should just improve from here ;) ( Feature freeze ) | 11:42 |
| wwoods | true enough | 11:42 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Focused testing for rawhide | 11:42 | |
| wwoods | okay, not a lot of time left | 11:42 |
| wwoods | so there's some big new things in F9 | 11:43 |
| wwoods | 1) packagekit replaced pup/pirut | 11:43 |
| wwoods | 2) NetworkManager by default | 11:43 |
| wwoods | 3) upstart replaced sysvinit | 11:43 |
| wwoods | 4) firefox3 | 11:43 |
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| wwoods | if you're just following along with rawhide you might not realize these things had all changed | 11:44 |
| wwoods | you'll still have pup/pirut, you might not be using NM, etc. | 11:44 |
| wwoods | so we need to tell testers: this is what's new and shiny, please please test it | 11:44 |
| wwoods | I'm especially worried about PackageKit | 11:44 |
| wwoods | it needs to be polished | 11:45 |
| * jwb hates the PackageKit | 11:45 | |
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| viking-ice | had noticed that had both before clean install with fc9-beta | 11:45 |
| jwb | oops, sorry | 11:45 |
| wwoods | if you hate it, file bugs | 11:45 |
| wwoods | file bugs like crazy | 11:45 |
| wwoods | file bugs until they bash it into shape and you love it | 11:45 |
| wwoods | or until they are crushed under the mountain of bugs and we can revert to pup/pirut | 11:46 |
| wwoods | so: are there other big changes that we need to notify people about and ask for extra, focused testing there | 11:46 |
| wwoods | icedtea -> openjdk might be another thing | 11:46 |
| wwoods | swfdec maybe? | 11:46 |
| wwoods | viking-ice: I'm gonna guess you'll vote for keyboard stuff here? | 11:47 |
| wwoods | heh | 11:47 |
| viking-ice | to put it mildly yes ;) | 11:47 |
| wwoods | viking-ice: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2008-March/msg00710.html might be helpful? | 11:48 |
| viking-ice | have already been throught the whole evdev madness.. | 11:48 |
| wwoods | otherwise.. file bugs, ask in #fedora-devel and/or ask ajax | 11:48 |
| wwoods | because I thought that was supposed to be back to pre-evdev semi-sanity | 11:49 |
| wwoods | so if it's still weird for you, that's a bug | 11:49 |
| viking-ice | as soon as I have configure keyboard correctly it's no problem | 11:49 |
| viking-ice | but it does seem to be getting the keyboard layout as I chose it in anaconda | 11:49 |
| wwoods | interesting. I'll try to play around a bit and make sure everything's sorted out there | 11:50 |
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| wwoods | anyway, if there's other suggestions, I'd like to hear 'em | 11:51 |
| viking-ice | have 3 other freshly install beta... to get clean testing.. ( am updating the first install as we speak ) | 11:51 |
| wwoods | I'll send mail to -test-list and probably -devel-list requesting testing be focused on the.. 5 things mentioned (pk, nm, upstart, ff3, evdev) | 11:51 |
| wwoods | people will probably reply with suggestions on-list | 11:51 |
| wwoods | so that'll be good. | 11:52 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc. | 11:52 | |
| wwoods | okay! anything else we should discuss? | 11:52 |
| viking-ice | world domination.. google a life threat.. | 11:52 |
| viking-ice | to the empire | 11:52 |
| wwoods | heh! | 11:52 |
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| wwoods | someday we shall absorb google into the Fedora collective | 11:53 |
| wwoods | but first: Microsoft has got to go | 11:54 |
| wwoods | anyway. Triage meeting is about to start | 11:54 |
| wwoods | so I'll wrap up here | 11:55 |
| wwoods | thanks for your time, everyone! | 11:55 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule | 11:56 | |
| --- Log closed Wed Mar 26 11:56:26 2008 | ||
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