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| f13 | rdieter_away: what was the thing you were pinging me about? | 01:27 |
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| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init | 11:00 | |
| wwoods | meeting tiiime. | 11:00 |
| wwoods | f13, jds2001, jlaska, poelcat: ping | 11:01 |
| wwoods | (you've got a moment - I need to grab a drink) | 11:01 |
| * jlaska | 11:01 | |
| * f13 at OLS | 11:02 | |
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| wwoods | BLERG okay sorry | 11:06 |
| * poelcat here | 11:06 | |
| wwoods | So Alpha was frozen (or, more accurately, snapshotted) yesterday | 11:07 |
| wwoods | that's the main thing we need to discuss | 11:07 |
| wwoods | so before we get bogged down in that | 11:07 |
| jlaska | wwoods: how was it frozen ... is there a koji tag for the alpha? | 11:07 |
| wwoods | jlaska: yep. f10-alpha | 11:07 |
| jlaska | gotcha, thx | 11:08 |
| wwoods | The Alpha is a non-blocking freeze - basically we take a snapshot of rawhide and compose from that | 11:08 |
| wwoods | rawhide continues moving forward as normal | 11:08 |
| wwoods | but if there are fixes we need in alpha, we (or the package maintainer) need to file a ticket with releng | 11:08 |
| jlaska | and only approved alpha blocking fixes are tagged w/ f10-alpha ? | 11:08 |
| wwoods | https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/newticket | 11:08 |
| wwoods | pretty much, yes | 11:08 |
| wwoods | but, let's just be clear - any non-Alpha stuff we need to discuss? | 11:09 |
| jlaska | wwoods: what's the current status of the alpha blocker list? | 11:09 |
| wwoods | testopia-type things? other ideas? | 11:10 |
| alindebe | what's the status of the testopia replacement? | 11:10 |
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| wwoods | alindebe: no idea, haven't heard from dmalcolm. I just pinged him and asked if he could let us know what's up | 11:11 |
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| wwoods | we were supposed to find out more last week, so hopefully there's some news | 11:12 |
| wwoods | dmalcolm: ah, welcome! and thanks for comin' | 11:12 |
| dmalcolm | There's a draft of the FLOSS exception for ExtJS available at http://extjs.com/products/floss-exception.php | 11:12 |
| dmalcolm | have sent spot that link, though I believe he's currently somewhere near the US/Canadian border (or at White Castle, if very lost) | 11:13 |
| wwoods | heh! | 11:13 |
| dmalcolm | spot: around? | 11:13 |
| * wwoods guessing no | 11:14 | |
| wwoods | still, sounds like forward progress is being made on the legal issues. does this seem like we'll be able to just wait it out and use Testopia proper? | 11:14 |
| dmalcolm | (context is the possible licensing conflict between testopia/extjs; see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450013#c21 ) | 11:15 |
| dmalcolm | I hope that we will be, I would prefer not to have to do a lot of hacking to deal with this | 11:15 |
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| jlaska | dmalcolm: 'hacking' ... like manually removing the extjs stuff ... or turbozilla style hacking? | 11:16 |
| dmalcolm | I haven't been working on the turbogears reimplementation in the meantime | 11:16 |
| wwoods | indeed. so is it too optimistic to say: use the wiki until the license exception gets approved? | 11:16 |
| dmalcolm | jlaska: both would be substantial amounts of work | 11:16 |
| wwoods | because it's sounding like that may be cleared up fairly soon | 11:17 |
| jlaska | dmalcolm: no doubt ... just wanted to clarify | 11:17 |
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| dmalcolm | wwoods: I don't have a good timetable on the process, alas | 11:17 |
| dmalcolm | wwoods: suspect that using the wiki is the best compromise at the moment | 11:17 |
| jlaska | wwoods: migrating results from the wiki into testopia won't be tremendously difficult | 11:18 |
| wwoods | hm. Well, final freeze is October 1. would it be foolish to assume it will be worked out (one way or the other) by then? | 11:18 |
| dmalcolm | (just a pain to have to use the wiki in the meantime) | 11:18 |
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| dmalcolm | wwoods: I don't think we can guarantee a licensing resolution by then. However, if it looks like taking that long, I may be ablre to convince my boss at RH to bite the bullet and hack on this fulltime for a good chunk of time | 11:19 |
| dmalcolm | s/hack/schedule me to hack/g | 11:19 |
| dmalcolm | I _hope_ it will be resolved soon though, of course | 11:20 |
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| wwoods | well, we'll go with Wiki as the plan of record for F10Alpha. Hopefully by Beta time we'll know whether we're going to be using the Wiki for the whole F10 cycle | 11:21 |
| jlaska | in the meantime, I have draft of a wiki page we can use to record alpha results up for review ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora10Install/Alpha | 11:21 |
| wwoods | err. wiki is the plan of record for Alpha and Beta | 11:21 |
| wwoods | jlaska: nice. is that derived from what we had in testopia? | 11:22 |
| jlaska | the draft only includes baseline regression tests at this time ... I have not yet pulled in new post-f9 cases | 11:22 |
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| jlaska | I could use links/pointers on what's missing | 11:22 |
| jlaska | but this wiki is an attempt to track execution of the non-functional test cases defined in the test plan at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora10Install | 11:23 |
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| dmalcolm | jlaska: http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/turbozilla/testplan/2 ? | 11:23 |
| jlaska | dmalcolm: perfect, thx | 11:23 |
| wwoods | oh nice! | 11:23 |
| dmalcolm | jlaska: and http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/turbozilla/product/3 for that matter | 11:24 |
| dmalcolm | there appear to be a few others in there | 11:24 |
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| wwoods | yeah, it should be a superset of the rawhide plan - http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/turbozilla/testplan/12 | 11:25 |
| wwoods | which has stuff like KVM | 11:25 |
| wwoods | that's missing from the installation plan | 11:25 |
| jlaska | correct | 11:25 |
| wwoods | ('cuz I added it the day before we stopped using testopia, doh) | 11:25 |
| jlaska | I'm still debating how best to model KVM ... since that seems more like an environment | 11:25 |
| jlaska | but can certainly just be an additional test case in the meantime | 11:26 |
| jlaska | until we have tools support | 11:26 |
| * jlaska envisions several future environments (XEN PV, KVM, VmWare ...) | 11:26 | |
| wwoods | except kvm-i686 is different from kvm-x86_64 | 11:27 |
| jlaska | definitely | 11:27 |
| wwoods | so it's actually a bunch of environments, if you're gonna model it that way | 11:27 |
| jlaska | I wouldn't have any objection to "i386 (KVM)", "i386 (Xen PV)" ... | 11:27 |
| jlaska | yeah | 11:27 |
| jlaska | the test plan wouldn't call for complete execution coverage in all environments ... but perhaps a representative sampling | 11:28 |
| wwoods | anyway, for the moment we'll treat it as a simple test case for F10a | 11:28 |
| wwoods | I guess we should talk alpha specifics now? | 11:28 |
| wwoods | unless there's further business? | 11:29 |
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| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F10Alpha - blockers | 11:30 | |
| wwoods | okay, now we get our hands dirty | 11:30 |
| jlaska | are folks pleased with the testresult wiki format ... are there any suggestions there that might help mitigate wiki edit pain | 11:30 |
| wwoods | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=446445&hide_resolved=1 | 11:30 |
| wwoods | err duh | 11:30 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F10Alpha - blockers | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=446445&hide_resolved=1 | 11:30 | |
| wwoods | jlaska: nah, it looks like it'll be pretty OK.. we don't even need to worry about the locking problem as much anymore | 11:31 |
| wwoods | so that's nice | 11:31 |
| wwoods | plus changing the color of a line is much more obvious | 11:31 |
| wwoods | no, I think it'll be better than it was with Moin | 11:31 |
| jlaska | right ... different sections for each arch and %step | 11:31 |
| jlaska | cool, thx | 11:32 |
| jlaska | we can easily adjust ... so just shout as issues surface or coverage gaps emerge | 11:32 |
| wwoods | so f13's at OLS but at some point he will magically create CD images and such | 11:34 |
| wwoods | and then we will start ripping that up | 11:34 |
| wwoods | first we need to make sure we've got all the major problems on the F10a tracker | 11:34 |
| wwoods | so yeah, hitting that link in the topic.. we've got | 11:35 |
| wwoods | bug 451733 | 11:35 |
| f13 | wwoods: I'll try to make a full pungi compose of today's rawhide | 11:35 |
| wwoods | pjones is also at OLS IIRC, and that's just a warning, so I think I might drop that to F10Blocker | 11:35 |
| f13 | likely not until late tonight | 11:35 |
| f13 | wwoods: pjones is just on PTO | 11:35 |
| wwoods | buggbot: are you okay, buddy? | 11:35 |
| wwoods | f13: oh, okay | 11:36 |
| * f13 wonders | 11:36 | |
| f13 | I bet I could use 'test3' to do the compose | 11:36 |
| f13 | although that's not available to the full public | 11:37 |
| f13 | just people who can get to bastian. | 11:37 |
| f13 | hrmz. | 11:37 |
| wwoods | bug 452509 - Firefox randomly crashes with segmentation fault in gmail.. | 11:37 |
| wwoods | I don't think we can block the release for that one, sadly | 11:37 |
| wwoods | firefox is a big damn mess right now | 11:37 |
| alindebe | it really is | 11:37 |
| wwoods | there's legal stuff going on and security stuff | 11:37 |
| alindebe | plus the crashing? | 11:37 |
| alindebe | It crashes at everything | 11:37 |
| wwoods | so bugfixes are being held back because of legal problems | 11:37 |
| alindebe | ohh | 11:37 |
| f13 | hrm, I thought we had a grace period on fixes | 11:38 |
| wwoods | but a new package got shoved out the door because of security bugs | 11:38 |
| jlaska | wwoods: what are the plans to address that issue ... do they know the root cause yet? | 11:38 |
| wwoods | which broke dependencies in like 378 packages | 11:38 |
| wwoods | which have all had bugs filed against them | 11:38 |
| wwoods | jlaska: I don't know - there's a legal-related SEP field around the entire thing | 11:38 |
| wwoods | (that's Someone Else's Problem, btw) | 11:39 |
| wwoods | caillon is either busy or hamstrung by legal but he's not saying much | 11:39 |
| wwoods | he's definitely aware of the problems though | 11:39 |
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| jlaska | do we provide a list of known issues in the milestone announcements? | 11:40 |
| wwoods | typically, yeah | 11:40 |
| wwoods | it's usually populated by whatever's left on the tracker | 11:40 |
| wwoods | plus any other notes we provide to whoever's writing the announcement | 11:41 |
| wwoods | e.g. on the test results page | 11:41 |
| jlaska | perfect ... sounds like that'll be one left on the tracker | 11:41 |
| * f13 tries to invite caillon here. | 11:41 | |
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| f13 | caillon: hey, we're talking about F10 Alpha, and current Firefox issues | 11:42 |
| f13 | can you give us an update and an expectation for Alpha, which we'll be spinning early next week? | 11:42 |
| caillon | any context, specifically? | 11:42 |
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| caillon | or should i just ramble? | 11:43 |
| f13 | ramble is probably OK, but there is a /lot/ of people grumbling about instability | 11:43 |
| f13 | and now a ton of broken deps | 11:43 |
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| wwoods | there's the ongoing broken dependency problems, and bug 452509 (crashing on gmail) and bug.. hmm. ff3-crash-hunspell | 11:43 |
| wwoods | but yeah, we'd be happy to hear an Official Rant about what's up | 11:43 |
| caillon | wwoods, ff3-crash-hunspell is fixed as of 3am | 11:44 |
| caillon | though i need to update the bug | 11:44 |
| mcepl | wwoods: caillon was working on ff3-crash-hunspell yesterday -- don't know the results though | 11:44 |
| mcepl | :) | 11:44 |
| drago01 | mcepl: it works and its tagged for alpha ;) | 11:45 |
| caillon | the broken deps thing was unfortunate, and due to a miscommunication and bad timing on various issues coming together. | 11:45 |
| wwoods | from what I understand there was a security fix that needed to be pushed and couldn't wait for stuff to be rebuilt | 11:45 |
| wwoods | so the choice was: broken deps or expoitable security hole. is that accurate? | 11:45 |
| f13 | isn't that always the case with FF security updates? | 11:45 |
| caillon | wwoods, right. there was that too. i try to build things when i can but this past time with F9, i just ran out of time to do so. | 11:45 |
| caillon | also... most of the things that really broke people were broken to begin with.... | 11:46 |
| wwoods | f13: pretty much, although I thought xulrunner was going to let people do deps like 'gecko-libs >= 1.9' so minor updates wouldn't break stuff | 11:46 |
| f13 | wwoods: except they all use the non-stable API | 11:46 |
| caillon | things that use xulrunner's stable API should not need a rebuild, but they were requiring a specific version instead of >= | 11:46 |
| wwoods | ohhh | 11:47 |
| caillon | things that use the unstable API still need to require a specific version | 11:47 |
| caillon | the things that broke most people were stable things that pretended they were unstable | 11:47 |
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| wwoods | and, presumably, the things that use the unstable API need to have their maintainers shaken | 11:47 |
| caillon | so I was not expecting eg. nspluginwrapper to require a rebuild | 11:47 |
| drago01 | nspluginwrapper does not even use the api | 11:48 |
| caillon | it used to | 11:48 |
| drago01 | ok | 11:48 |
| caillon | so that was the one that broke the most people | 11:48 |
| drago01 | and totem | 11:48 |
| f13 | ugh, so we need a good cleanup effort of these packages. | 11:48 |
| f13 | to get them to require the right things | 11:48 |
| caillon | right. i intend to do that soon. | 11:48 |
| wwoods | have those packages been fixed? are there bugs filed for the ones that need(ed) fixing? | 11:49 |
| caillon | i don't know | 11:49 |
| wwoods | we should probably set up a xulrunner-deps tracker bug | 11:49 |
| caillon | the ones that broke people should have been fixed already | 11:49 |
| caillon | i'm out all next week, so i will get to it the following week | 11:49 |
| wwoods | so we can track this (and give the public a peek into what was wrong and what's fixed) | 11:49 |
| mcepl | there is now steaming pile of bugs people complaining about almost anything broken -- trying to close them as duplicate as they are coming | 11:49 |
| drago01 | there is breake in rawhide too (ex epiphany needs a rebuild) | 11:49 |
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| drago01 | *breakage | 11:50 |
| caillon | i can do that | 11:50 |
| f13 | caillon: before you leave, what is the state of firefox itself? Deps can be fixed by other people, I'm concerned about FF itself for alpha | 11:50 |
| drago01 | caillon: ok | 11:50 |
| caillon | it would help if i got those mails | 11:50 |
| caillon | (i bet they go to /dev/null aka gecko-maint) | 11:50 |
| f13 | *grumble* | 11:50 |
| caillon | maybe, it should go to the person who built the last package for the broken thing as well? | 11:51 |
| caillon | or cc the people with cancommit | 11:51 |
| caillon | or something | 11:51 |
| caillon | anyway | 11:51 |
| f13 | yeah, might be doable | 11:52 |
| f13 | I should look at that for teh latter half of f10 development | 11:52 |
| caillon | f13, the only major complaint i heard was the instability. that should be fixed as of 1.9.0.1-2.fc9 | 11:52 |
| caillon | er, .fc10 | 11:52 |
| mcepl | wwoods: take a look at RHBZ 456185 and 455949 | 11:52 |
| f13 | getting the fas ID of the person whom built the package is easy enough via koji. | 11:52 |
| f13 | caillon: ok, I hope so. I don't know if that will actually be in rawhide today or not, once rawhide actually lands | 11:52 |
| caillon | f13, i'll comment in the bug and i bet people will test it | 11:53 |
| f13 | please! | 11:53 |
| caillon | it's hacky for now, but the build system for mozilla is a little tricky. | 11:54 |
| caillon | but at least the crashes should be gone | 11:54 |
| caillon | i'll have a few people internally who were complaining about it give it a whirl | 11:55 |
| wwoods | mcepl: oh, so 456185 was closed as a dup of 455949, except the reporter reopened the bug because it was a different package pulling in xulrunner? | 11:55 |
| wwoods | blarg | 11:55 |
| caillon | f13, i'll note that the crashes were not actually caused by me specifically, but because hunspell added a hack to make firefox link against the new ABI. | 11:55 |
| mcepl | wwoods: yeah, my thoughts exactly -- people just don't understand that things need to be fixed and they protect their precious bug like a baby. Oh well | 11:55 |
| caillon | it should have simply failed to build | 11:55 |
| mcepl | caillon: so is there a hope that we will have XR using system hunspell again? | 11:56 |
| caillon | mcepl, yes | 11:56 |
| mcepl | cool | 11:56 |
| caillon | just not today. | 11:56 |
| f13 | caillon: sure, I wasn't trying to point any fingers at all | 11:56 |
| mcepl | of course | 11:58 |
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| f13 | ok xulrunner-1.9.0.1-1.fc10 is what will be in today's rawhide. | 11:58 |
| mcepl | f13: s/-1.fc10/-2.fc10/ right? | 11:59 |
| wwoods | caillon: so is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=452509 suspected to be a dup of the hunspell problem? | 11:59 |
| f13 | mcepl: no, -2 missed the compose cutoff | 11:59 |
| caillon | likely | 11:59 |
| mcepl | f13: OK, but it doesn't help hunspell crash, right? | 12:00 |
| f13 | that was my point. | 12:00 |
| f13 | people needing the fix will have to go directly to koji for it today | 12:00 |
| mcepl | ok, sorry | 12:01 |
| wwoods | okay, so anything with incorrect deps against specific xulrunner versions should be filed in bugzilla and made to block F10Alpha and/or F10Blocker | 12:03 |
| wwoods | I guess both? | 12:03 |
| wwoods | yeah, both. Alpha is just a tracker, not all the bugs on there are necessarily blockers | 12:03 |
| mcepl | wwoods: and if possible closed as dupe of 455949? | 12:03 |
| * f13 has to run to his talk. | 12:03 | |
| wwoods | f13: cool, see you | 12:03 |
| wwoods | mcepl: user bugs filed about broken deps should be closed as dup of 455949, yes | 12:04 |
| * jlaska context switches | 12:04 | |
| wwoods | but we need to audit packages that require xulrunner/gecko-libs and file bugs where those reqs are wrong | 12:04 |
| caillon | wwoods, i'll go through them myself in 2 weeks | 12:04 |
| caillon | to make sure that everything which has deps on gecko has the right ones | 12:05 |
| caillon | in F9 and 10 | 12:05 |
| wwoods | caillon: okay, cool. is there any way we can run through that stuff in your absence to make it easier for you, or should we just leave it to you? | 12:05 |
| drago01 | caillon: for the apps that use the stable api ... can we just remove the hardcoded dep? (rpm should handle it) | 12:05 |
| caillon | wwoods, if you want to do so, then the rule is: | 12:06 |
| caillon | if you BuildRequire: gecko-devel-unstable, you must both BR and Req a specific version. e.g. 1.9.0.1 | 12:07 |
| caillon | if you BuildRequire: xulrunner-devel-unstable, change it to gecko-devel-unstable, and follow the above. | 12:07 |
| caillon | if you BuildRequire: gecko-devel and not -unstable, you can use >= 1.9 for the reqs | 12:08 |
| caillon | if you BuildRequire: xulrunner-devel you should change it to gecko-devel | 12:08 |
| caillon | also. if you use the -unstable, please send me a note. | 12:09 |
| caillon | I keep tabs on them so I can rebuild them for each security update | 12:09 |
| caillon | (also please consider adding me to the ACL or opening it up if it is not) | 12:09 |
| caillon | EOF | 12:10 |
| wwoods | gotcha. Do you want me to put a note on -devel-list (or maybe -devel-announce) with this info, or would you like to do so? | 12:10 |
| drago01 | caillon: my question? can we remove Requires: gecko-libs >= 1.9 for packages that Buildrequire: gecko-devel >= 1.9 ? | 12:11 |
| caillon | drago01, no. | 12:11 |
| drago01 | so upstream does not bump the soname when breaking the abi? | 12:11 |
| caillon | drago01, we'd be up to so version MAX_INT by now | 12:12 |
| drago01 | caillon: just saw that there is no soname at all ... ok ;) | 12:12 |
| caillon | drago01, right. so, to make sure that you actually are using a compat version, please keep those in | 12:13 |
| caillon | wwoods, if you want, go for it. | 12:13 |
| wwoods | I'll try to sum up this discussion, so people understand what's up and how stuff can get fixed | 12:14 |
| caillon | anyway, i've got to run. i've been trying to leave home and drive to the office for the past 2 hours, and i have a meeting soon and will have to do take out from the cafeteria. | 12:14 |
| wwoods | and so maybe they'll stop filing bug reports and demanding that his never happen again | 12:14 |
| wwoods | caillon: no problem, thanks very much for the info | 12:14 |
| caillon | leet me know later if there are more questions | 12:14 |
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| wwoods | caillon: will do | 12:14 |
| wwoods | okay so that's bug 452509 covered. heh. | 12:15 |
| wwoods | it's past lunchtime now so I'll race through the rest | 12:15 |
| wwoods | 452639 - reboot and shutdown are missing. | 12:15 |
| wwoods | should be fixed in today's rawhide / latest gnome-session package (which is already tagged for f10-alpha) | 12:15 |
| wwoods | but make sure gnome-session-2.23.5-0.2008.07.21.3.fc10 Does The Right Thing | 12:16 |
| wwoods | ok next: 452799 - segfault in libdevmapper booting with encrypted root + plymouth. | 12:16 |
| wwoods | I haven't tested encrypted root + plymouth | 12:16 |
| wwoods | there's also 453678 - booting with encrypted root fails unless you have plymouth installed. | 12:17 |
| wwoods | IIRC the former is an upgrade from F9, the latter is a fresh rawhide install | 12:17 |
| wwoods | alindebe: can you try to verify https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=453678 later? | 12:19 |
| wwoods | basically just do a minimal install with an encrypted root filesystem | 12:19 |
| wwoods | and see if it freaks out | 12:19 |
| wwoods | although.. minimal might install plymouth. dunno. that'd still be a good thing to test. | 12:19 |
| wwoods | I'll check on the F9 upgrade case (i'm doing upgrade testing anyway right now) | 12:19 |
| wwoods | aaand that's all the blockers we have for the moment. | 12:20 |
| wwoods | anyone still awake? want to propose new blockers? | 12:20 |
| wwoods | anything unreported that we need to add to the list? | 12:20 |
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| wwoods | okay then. meeting over, lunch time GO, bring any proposed blockers (or unfiled bugs) to #fedora-qa | 12:21 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule | 12:22 | |
| --- Log closed Wed Jul 23 12:22:17 2008 | ||
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