| --- Log opened Wed Jan 07 11:19:09 2009 | ||
| wwoods | hooray.. for QA! | 11:19 |
|---|---|---|
| wwoods | jds2001, poelcat, jlaska, f13: ping | 11:19 |
| wwoods | everyone else who is here for the QA meeting, say hello for the log | 11:19 |
| * f13 | 11:20 | |
| * jds2001 | 11:20 | |
| * jlaska | 11:21 | |
| * jlaska troubleshooting a frustrating infrastructure issue atm | 11:21 | |
| wwoods | so, hi. There's an agenda on -test-list | 11:21 |
| wwoods | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-January/msg00127.html | 11:21 |
| wwoods | first: f11a status | 11:23 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | F11 Alpha status | 11:23 | |
| -!- cmpahar [n=cmpahar@83.212.63.140] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 11:23 | |
| wwoods | I admit to not having attempted an install during the holidays, but rawhide hasn't been installable the past two times I tried. nevertheless I did a preupgrade from F8 | 11:23 |
| * jds2001 has been through a few feature pages...about half | 11:23 | |
| wwoods | which seems to have locked up on me, but that's just a fun quirk of shit hardware | 11:24 |
| f13 | dcantrell and I did a lot of work just before the break to try and get anaconda into a usable state | 11:24 |
| jds2001 | i'll probably get to the other half on the train tomorrow. | 11:24 |
| wwoods | hah I meant "this hardware" but man, that's a good typo | 11:24 |
| f13 | it was installable, provided you attempted dhcp twice | 11:24 |
| -!- valente [n=vali@89.121.200.106] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 11:24 | |
| wwoods | f13: yeah, I recall that - and thanks | 11:24 |
| f13 | that broke further somewhere around the 3rd | 11:24 |
| wwoods | it was definitely working before the break and has, in general, been more stable than people usually expect of rawhide, so good work there | 11:25 |
| wwoods | as for feature pages - I've gone through a couple too. mostly right now we need to focus on the Scope sections, I think | 11:25 |
| wwoods | make sure they have a detailed list of what will change, and where | 11:25 |
| wwoods | so we know what we will need to include in the test plan | 11:25 |
| jds2001 | yep, were the comments I made relevant? | 11:26 |
| jds2001 | I saw you commented on presto as well. | 11:27 |
| wwoods | yeah, you were pretty much right on the money - I just wanted to be double clear (and double-naggy) about it | 11:27 |
| wwoods | I feel like presto is one of the more invasive changes so far in F11 and might need special attention | 11:27 |
| wwoods | probably will schedule some test days for that | 11:28 |
| jlaska | I'll be hopefully talking w/ jds2001 about drafting a set of Test Days at fudcon | 11:28 |
| wwoods | oh excellent | 11:28 |
| jds2001 | f13: we might need your help with presto-ized repos on secondary1 or something. | 11:28 |
| wwoods | that's a good segue into FUDCon discussions, unless anyone has more about F11a? | 11:28 |
| f13 | I have committed 0 time to presto feature | 11:29 |
| f13 | I'm already overcomitted for F11 | 11:29 |
| jds2001 | understood....i guess we can talk at fudcon | 11:30 |
| -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 11:30 | |
| -!- mether_ [n=sundaram@nat/redhat-in/x-50aff8e845b32513] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:30 | |
| jds2001 | we == wwoods, jlaska and myself and maybe lmacken?? | 11:31 |
| wwoods | I hope lmacken will be involved, there's a lot of bodhi-related stuff we've been talking about and it'll all be a lot easier if he's involved | 11:32 |
| wwoods | okay, so, hackfest stuff | 11:34 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | Planned hackfest sessions at FUDCon | 11:34 | |
| wwoods | We've got two main hackfests listed: Automated QA (led by f13) | 11:35 |
| wwoods | and Automated Installation Testing (led by me) | 11:35 |
| wwoods | there's also some Usability Testing meta-hackery that will be *hopefully* led mostly by my wife but I may have my time divided there | 11:36 |
| -!- hpachas-PE [n=hpachas@200.37.120.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 11:36 | |
| jds2001 | sounds awesome. | 11:37 |
| wwoods | but it turns out that e.g. istanbul is *awesome* for doing usability testing. voila, one simple program and you get an .ogg of everything the user does, and their voice | 11:38 |
| wwoods | usability testing is a weird overlap of QA and Art/Design | 11:39 |
| jds2001 | you got mizmo on for that too? | 11:39 |
| wwoods | yep | 11:39 |
| -!- iarlyy [n=iarly@mail.libertynet.com.br] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:39 | |
| -!- iarlyy [n=iarly@mail.libertynet.com.br] has left #fedora-meeting [] | 11:39 | |
| wwoods | we (QA) will be helping them write docs for people who want to write test scenarios - e.g. devs with new interfaces, package maintainers, interested QA folks | 11:40 |
| -!- petreu| [n=peter@p3EE3CBF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:40 | |
| wwoods | reviewing the resulting data and making useful suggestions will be the province of the devs themselves, and the art/design team | 11:40 |
| wwoods | so don't worry, we're not about to get flooded with video to review | 11:41 |
| wwoods | f13: as for automated QA.. do you have a draft of examples of things you wanted to write tests for | 11:41 |
| wwoods | and/or places in the process we need to have hooks to run those tests? | 11:41 |
| -!- londo_ [n=georgiou@heppc218.hep.ph.ic.ac.uk] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:42 | |
| wwoods | well, we'll get back to f13 in a sec | 11:43 |
| wwoods | but for the record, I'd like to say that the plans of having a large library of per-package (or systemwide) regression tests | 11:43 |
| wwoods | those plans are still around, we still want to do that | 11:43 |
| * viking_ice does a fast catchup.. | 11:43 | |
| wwoods | but that's *not* what f13 & co. will be working on at FUDCon | 11:44 |
| jds2001 | we also want to concentrate on what we can do *right now* like f13 said. | 11:44 |
| wwoods | exactly | 11:44 |
| jlaska | small wins | 11:44 |
| wwoods | if we learned anything from the movie What About Bob | 11:44 |
| f13 | let me know when you're back to me. | 11:44 |
| wwoods | it is the importance of baby steps | 11:44 |
| wwoods | heh | 11:44 |
| wwoods | f13: sure, go for it | 11:44 |
| viking_ice | wwoods: could you elaborate a bit more about "usability testing" | 11:45 |
| -!- drago01_ [n=linux@chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:46 | |
| f13 | ok, so I talked with jlaska and a few others about this already | 11:46 |
| wwoods | viking_ice: sitting someone down with an application / website and asking them to perform some task | 11:46 |
| f13 | but my talk is basically going to be about near term wins | 11:46 |
| wwoods | in order to find out how hard (or easy) it is for them to figure out what to do | 11:46 |
| viking_ice | Is this about recording a user doing stuff or is this about recording video for user to do stuff.. | 11:46 |
| viking_ice | ok | 11:46 |
| wwoods | viking_ice: the first one | 11:46 |
| viking_ice | well got it :( | 11:46 |
| viking_ice | :) | 11:46 |
| f13 | what I'd like to have as the barcamp is a design session on; What we can react to, what we can test once reacted, and where we can report the findings. | 11:46 |
| wwoods | viking_ice: check out http://betterdesktop.org/ for some prior work in this area | 11:47 |
| viking_ice | I think it's a cool Idea.. | 11:47 |
| f13 | essentially we can create some buckets, like post-cvs-checkin, post-koji-package-build, post-bodhi-update-request, and even post-rawhide-compose | 11:47 |
| -!- drago01 [n=linux@chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at] has quit [Success] | 11:47 | |
| -!- mether [n=sundaram@nat/redhat-in/x-1f493f4c5e65560b] has quit [Client Quit] | 11:47 | |
| f13 | within those buckets we can toss some test cases such as "can you install the rpm into a fresh chroot", and "with this rpm, can you repoclose against it's target repo" | 11:47 |
| f13 | or "does this tree I just composed have any broken deps" | 11:48 |
| f13 | we already do a very limited set of post-tree-compose tests, we could add to them. | 11:48 |
| -!- neverho0d [n=psv@vpn-pool-78-139-211-133.tomtel.ru] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:48 | |
| jlaska | f13: something we can talk about further at fudcon, but perhaps the items to consider for testing should be the release criteria for those "items" to move to the next phase | 11:48 |
| f13 | the design session is just to get people thinking about buckets, tests to put into buckets that would be useful for them, and then a brief talk about where to report this stuff, which may be no further than <package>-owner@fedorparoject.org | 11:48 |
| wwoods | right - and similarly to the way e.g. yum plugins are defined, we'll want to define what info (parameters/arguments/whatever) each of the test hooks/buckets will get | 11:51 |
| -!- drago01_ is now known as drago01 | 11:51 | |
| f13 | basically I'm going to be looking for a few key buckets and a few key tests that we can roll out in the next couple weeks | 11:51 |
| f13 | something that we can start getting meaningful results /now/ rather than later, and worry about an all encompasing test management system when it comes online. | 11:52 |
| f13 | we've gone far too long without regularly doing basic testing of things, mostly looking at Fedora as a "repository of packages" | 11:52 |
| f13 | this won't really touch on /functional/ testing of the software itself, eg we wouldnt' be testing if the latest apache build is able to serve up webpages, but more from a point of view of "can I use this as a source to make a spin" | 11:53 |
| wwoods | right | 11:53 |
| wwoods | automated functional testing is way further down the line | 11:53 |
| -!- J5 [n=quintice@c-66-31-41-146.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:54 | |
| f13 | nod | 11:54 |
| f13 | I'm also looking at more than a few weeks out from being able to do basic install testing of the nightly rawhide trees in a virt environment | 11:54 |
| f13 | nothing too fancy, just "does it install or not" to begin with | 11:55 |
| f13 | again using the tools that already exist out there like cobbler/koan | 11:55 |
| wwoods | and that's where the Automated Install Testing stuff starts | 11:55 |
| f13 | yep | 11:55 |
| viking_ice | We need to come up with a setup app or a script which testers can deploy automated install machines easily | 11:56 |
| wwoods | we'd actually like to get that part hacked together as best we can during FUDCon | 11:56 |
| wwoods | (hopefully someone will have a fullvirt-capable machine there) | 11:57 |
| jds2001 | wwoods: I will. | 11:57 |
| wwoods | jds2001: yay! | 11:57 |
| f13 | viking_ice: sure, but before we get to that, we need something "low tech" that is generating results TODAY | 11:57 |
| viking_ice | true true.. | 11:58 |
| f13 | viking_ice: frankly I'm tired of waiting for all these great and wonderful things we could do while we lose sight of getting something done now that has tagible and useful results. | 11:58 |
| f13 | (I'm just as guilty of this as anybody else) | 11:58 |
| wwoods | but it's definitely our goal to have a really easy-to-use system for people to do automated installs at home | 11:58 |
| viking_ice | or labs.. | 11:59 |
| -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@p4FDD18B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:59 | |
| -!- petreu| [n=peter@p3EE3CBF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"] | 11:59 | |
| wwoods | viking_ice: indeed. | 12:00 |
| wwoods | f13: definitely agree with that sentiment. 2009 will have more JFDI than ever before | 12:00 |
| wwoods | viking_ice: the docs for cobbler/koan are actually really good | 12:02 |
| wwoods | it's very easy to set up | 12:02 |
| wwoods | but we'll be writing some QA-specific stuff - docs about adding the releases and rawhide | 12:02 |
| wwoods | probably some kickstarts for common install/upgrade cases | 12:02 |
| viking_ice | Focus most on rawhide "testing" setup from scratch.. | 12:03 |
| viking_ice | local mirror etc.. | 12:03 |
| wwoods | rawhide's a hard target to hit sometimes though - it's easier to use something stable (say F10) as a standin for rawhide | 12:03 |
| wwoods | but yeah | 12:04 |
| f13 | viking_ice: cobbler can do that for you (the mirroring) | 12:04 |
| viking_ice | f13: yup.. | 12:04 |
| wwoods | so wherever possible, we'll try to send reports to fedora-test-list | 12:05 |
| wwoods | and/or drop links to new and interesting wiki pages here | 12:06 |
| wwoods | err #fedora-qa, rather | 12:06 |
| -!- jreznik_mobile [n=jreznik_@89-24-6-101.i4g.tmcz.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting | 12:06 | |
| jds2001 | there's also #fudcon for more generic stuff. | 12:06 |
| f13 | too.. many... IRC... channels | 12:06 |
| nirik | yeah, they are getting to be like mailing lists. ;) | 12:07 |
| viking_ice | perhaps we should just drop direction to the test list since the wiki is slow going | 12:07 |
| jds2001 | f13: you dont wanna know how many irc channels im in :) | 12:07 |
| viking_ice | and links.. | 12:07 |
| f13 | jds2001: I hit the freenode limit the other day | 12:07 |
| -!- Matias_Arg [n=root@host79.200-45-218.telecom.net.ar] has joined #fedora-meeting | 12:07 | |
| jds2001 | f13: you need +u :) | 12:07 |
| f13 | no, I need less channels | 12:08 |
| viking_ice | so off to next topic? camera audio fudcon irc channel ? | 12:08 |
| wwoods | I don't know anything about cameras and such | 12:09 |
| viking_ice | you point and shoot pretty basic really :) | 12:09 |
| f13 | there are going to be cameras and audio, likely not streaming though | 12:09 |
| wwoods | that's all Someone Else's Problem | 12:09 |
| wwoods | yeah I think there will be recordings of sessions but not streams | 12:09 |
| viking_ice | audio streaming I think.. | 12:09 |
| jds2001 | and not every session unless we get more camcorders | 12:10 |
| jds2001 | viking_ice: of one session. | 12:10 |
| viking_ice | jds2001: you mean our session :) | 12:10 |
| -!- Matias_Arg [n=root@host79.200-45-218.telecom.net.ar] has left #fedora-meeting [] | 12:10 | |
| -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa@fedora/geroldka] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 12:11 | |
| -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa@fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting | 12:11 | |
| jds2001 | and the whole recording and streaming stuff is just saturday | 12:12 |
| f13 | any further topics? I've got a hot date with a cold lunch | 12:12 |
| wwoods | I've got nothing else | 12:13 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | misc. | 12:13 | |
| wwoods | anyone else? | 12:13 |
| viking_ice | nope.. | 12:14 |
| jds2001 | i got nothing. any plans for tomorrow night hacking or anything? | 12:14 |
| * jds2001 doesn't know what time everyone gets in. | 12:14 | |
| viking_ice | and what state they will be in when they come. hehe | 12:14 |
| wwoods | we leave tonight at 10pm, probably puts us in boston around 2-4pm | 12:14 |
| wwoods | who knows what state we'll be in | 12:14 |
| wwoods | heh | 12:14 |
| -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim@fedora/nim-nim] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 12:14 | |
| jds2001 | hehe | 12:15 |
| wwoods | well, "massachusetts" | 12:15 |
| f13 | wwoods: hopefully you'll be in the !state of MA | 12:15 |
| wwoods | but beyond that all bets are off | 12:15 |
| f13 | MA is not a state. | 12:15 |
| wwoods | oh right | 12:15 |
| wwoods | it's a commonwealth. | 12:15 |
| jds2001 | ke4qqq was saying around 10-11AM.... | 12:15 |
| jds2001 | dunno how he's planning on driving :) | 12:15 |
| f13 | bbiab | 12:15 |
| -!- jreznik [i=58657d37@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df50b211b3c0c7ab] has joined #fedora-meeting | 12:15 | |
| -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian@fedora/lfoppiano] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] | 12:15 | |
| -!- nphilipp [n=nils@155.56.40.12] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] | 12:16 | |
| wwoods | jds2001: heh. if you don't hit any traffic, and you don't make any extraneous stops, you can do it in 12 hrs | 12:16 |
| -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim@fedora/nim-nim] has joined #fedora-meeting | 12:16 | |
| wwoods | but there is *always* traffic in DC and NYC | 12:16 |
| -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital] has joined #fedora-meeting | 12:17 | |
| wwoods | anyway, that's all for the meeting | 12:18 |
| wwoods | thanks for your time | 12:18 |
| --- Log closed Wed Jan 07 12:18:31 2009 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!