--- Log opened Wed Jun 25 10:59:37 2008
-!- Topic for #fedora-meeting: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule10:59
-!- Topic set by Kevin_Kofler [n=Kevin_Ko@chello213047068123.17.14.vie.surfer.at] [Tue Jun 24 13:05:30 2008]10:59
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | init11:00
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wwoodsQA meeting time! whee11:02
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wwoodsjds2001, poelcat, jlaska, f13, skvidal (on vacation), viking-ice: pings11:03
* viking-ice pings11:03
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* f13 11:04
wwoodsfor the agenda: I thought I'd do a quick wrapup of FUDCon discussions11:04
wwoodstalk about some of the work that's coming out of that (mostly Testopia-related)11:05
wwoodsand that's all I've got written down. anything else?11:05
wwoodsokay then, let's get started11:06
* viking-ice thinks that is an good idea since he could not attend fudcon 11:06
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | FUDCon recap11:06
wwoodsokay. There were, if I remember right, three major areas of discussion11:07
wwoods1) automated bug/crash reporting11:07
wwoods2) What Is Rawhide and How Do We Test It?11:07
wwoods3) using Testopia in Fedora11:07
wwoodsthe automated bug/crash reporting was mostly moved forward by a discussion that pjones, walters and I had over lunch11:09
wwoodswalters sums it up here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-June/msg01250.html11:09
wwoodsand the ensuing thread (on fedora-devel-list) has some details.11:09
wwoodsthe one-line summary is: we want to a) make firefox start reporting stuff to mozilla, b) set up a fedora crash-report server, and c) get more crash reports out of fedora stuff11:10
wwoodsmain development work is being handled by walters and pjones; this may turn into an F10/F11 feature, as an evolved form of Apport (which was proposed around F7/F8)11:11
wwoodsthat's apport.11:11
wwoodsif you're interested in knowing more, or helping out, talk to me or pjones or walters, or join that mail thread, or whatever.11:11
wwoodsnext topic: What Is Rawhide and How Do We Test It11:12
wwoodsthis was a discussion driven by f13 and poelcat dissecting what rawhide is actually supposed to be and how we should test it11:12
wwoodsand how we can make sure that it's more useful more of the time11:12
wwoodspoelcat sums up *that* discussion here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnPoelstra/ImproveRawhideF1011:13
wwoodsI'll try to do a two-line summary:11:13
wwoods1) rawhide is really two things; an installable tree (with boot images and stuff) and a package repo. 11:13
wwoods2) We should make sure we can identify when rawhide is usable as one thing, or the other, or both, and we should keep around copies of "good" images/repos.11:14
wwoodsfor instance, today rawhide has no boot images, but it still works as a repo for doing updates, and you might be able to do an installation from today's rawhide tree using older, working images11:15
wwoodsand we need to make that easier to do.11:15
wwoodsand that leads us to the other major topic: using Testopia11:16
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | FUDCon recap | using Testopia11:16
* f13 has already made previous day's rawhide available as low of cost to Fedora as possible11:16
wwoodsTestopia is a web-based tool (it's an addon to bugzilla actually) for tracking test cases/plans11:16
wwoodsf13: ah, that's the preferred URL? is http://koji.fedoraproject.org/mash/ bad to use?11:16
f13wwoods: yeah, koji. is the hub, and thus we don't want to add more traffic to it.  kojipkgs is the place to go11:17
wwoodsor are they equivalent?11:17
wwoodsf13: understood.11:17
f13in the future, koji. is likely going to redirect over to kojipkgs for that path (like as soon as I put in the puppet config change)11:17
f13although we'd still like to use the kojipkgs url to skip even the redirect overhead.11:17
wwoodsokay, so yeah, take note: if rawhide is broken, you can get to older rawhides from here: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/mash/11:18
wwoodswow, that goes all the way back to Apr. 111:18
f13we can tack on another url to that for easier memory11:18
f13wwoods: it's a manual clean process, and we haven't cleaned in a while11:18
wwoodsthat's back before F9 was released11:18
wwoodsthat's impressive11:18
f13but since that's largely just hardlinks to koji package otuput and only a few hundred megs of images/ that doesn't take up a lot of space11:18
wwoodsoh: we're also going to try to produce a script for people who do their own mirroring of rawhide11:18
wwoodsso they can keep a few days on their own without using a lot of space11:19
wwoodsrad. thanks f13 11:19
wwoodsso, yeah, Testopia. 11:19
wwoodsit currently lives here: http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/testopia11:19
wwoods(note the change from "/bugzilla" - old bookmarks may need to be changed)11:20
wwoodsthis is a test instance and may change without much warning11:20
wwoodsnevertheless - we're working on entering formal test cases for all the stuff we do to make sure rawhide / snapshots / milestones are ready to release11:20
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viking-icehttp://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/testopia hooked to fas?11:20
f13not currently, because it's still proof of concept11:21
wwoodsviking-ice: not yet. it has its own account system.11:21
f13A) no code written to interact with FAS11:21
f13B) No audit of code to ensure protection of FAS info11:21
wwoodsfurther, if you want to be able to edit test plans or add test cases, you need to be blessed as a Tester 11:21
wwoodsjust ask in #fedora-qa or email me11:21
wwoodsI know dmalcolm and I can bless people - there may be others11:22
wwoodsso the UI is a bit confusing at first, and we are working on writing up some HOWTOs for basic tasks11:22
viking-icewwoods: ok blessed as an tester in http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/testopia ?11:22
wwoodsviking-ice: yes11:22
wwoodsit's got its own separate account system right now11:22
* viking-ice got it :) 11:22
wwoodseventually we want it to be hooked into FAS and anyone in the 'qa' group will get blessed automatically11:22
wwoodsbut we're still working on it11:23
wwoodsthat reminds me11:23
wwoodsACTION: I still need to empty the QA group and start fresh11:23
wwoodspreferably before we get Testopia using it for auth.11:23
wwoodsanyway, if you look at, for example, https://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/testopia/tr_show_plan.cgi?plan_id=811:23
wwoodsthat's the Installation test plan, which should have the same test cases as the old matrix stuff on the wiki11:24
wwoodsexcept.. wait.11:24
wwoodsthat's the wrong one. https://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/testopia/tr_show_plan.cgi?plan_id=211:24
wwoodsis the F9 test plan11:24
wwoodsbut yes, the "Test Cases" tab shows the tests in that plan11:25
wwoods"Test Runs" shows the results of executing those plans11:25
wwoodson various arches and with various builds11:25
wwoodswe do plan to use this to track testing of F10 milestones11:26
wwoodsand nightly rawhide testing too11:26
wwoodsWe'll have a couple of Rawhide acceptance tests - basic smoke tests to see if rawhide is useful at all11:26
wwoodsand then there's the Rawhide installation tests. 11:26
wwoodsso, basically, we're going to try to automatically run some simple tests11:26
wwoodsand then you can check testopia each day11:26
wwoodsand if it failed the automated simple tests, there's no point in trying to install rawhide that day11:27
wwoodsbut you will be able to check the older test runs and find out which ones *were* working11:27
wwoodsand you can install from that one, using the http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/mash/ url11:27
wwoodsso, soon we can identify good rawhide trees11:27
wwoodsand you can go back and install from those11:28
wwoodsso yes, for my notes11:28
wwoodsACTION: write HOWTO guides (with screenshots) for common tasks11:28
wwoodssome common tasks are things like.. running some tests, creating a new test plan (for packagers who want test plans for their package), viewing results, etc.11:29
wwoodsACTION: finish modeling rawhide acceptance tests from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnPoelstra/ImproveRawhideF10 in Testopia11:29
wwoodsso there we have it. Any questions?11:30
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wwoodswell, that's everything I wanted to cover11:31
DemonJesterDo we need blessed as a tester to view the plans as well?11:31
wwoodsACTION: bloooooooog about using Testopia11:31
wwoodsDemonJester: unfortunately, yes11:31
wwoodsthere's a way to make the tests world-readable11:31
wwoodsbut it breaks some other stuff11:31
wwoodsand we're trying to figure that one out11:31
viking-iceSo the account creation db fucked up?11:32
viking-iceDBD::mysql::st execute failed11:32
DemonJesterexplains the error i got as well :-)11:32
wwoodsviking-ice: bah. yeah, that's what fucks up when you make tests world-readable11:32
wwoodsit's actually harmless11:32
jmtaylorthe process still works, for some reason that error gets generated11:32
wwoodsjust looks bad11:32
jmtaylorI got it too but it still created my account... :/11:32
wwoodsdmalcolm is tracing that one - he's leading the dev efforts for Testopia here11:33
wwoodsanyway let me know what your account names are if you want to be blessed as testers11:33
wwoodswe had a session about Testopia at FUDCon, and people asked questions like "can you attach files to a specific run of a a test? Like log files?"11:34
wwoodsthe answer turns out to be yes, but we hadn't tried it yet and didn't quite know how the UI worked for that11:34
wwoodswe're still learning11:34
wwoodsokay, I'm gonna take that as "no questions"11:36
DemonJesterwwoods: account name : bpowell01@gmail.com11:36
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | misc.11:36
viking-icewwoods: account name:  johannbg@fedoraproject.org11:37
jmtaylorwwoods: account name: jmtaylor90@gmail.com11:37
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wwoodsdone, done, and done11:38
wwoodsI'm sure you'll have questions about things you can do with testopia - I'll be in #fedora-qa all day and I'm happy to help people with it11:39
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wwoodsI'll try to put a post on the planet with a basic overview of How To Do Some Testing11:39
wwoodsvery soon we'll be creating test runs for rawhide every day11:39
wwoodsso there will always be stuff to do11:39
wwoodsalso, Alpha is coming way sooner than I care to think about11:40
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wwoodsso, yes, welcome to testopia. it'll be a learning experience for us all.11:40
wwoodsanything else we need to talk about?11:40
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wwoodsokay then. thanks for your time, folks11:42
wwoodsany testopia questions or comments can go to #fedora-qa or fedora-test-list11:42
wwoodsor any other Fedora QA stuff, for that matter11:42
wwoodsI'll try to wikify this log as soon as I figure out how11:42
wwoodsthanks again!11:43
viking-iceno thank you11:43
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* Sparks is here for the Docs Meeting15:01
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* jmtaylor lurks about15:01
Sparksjsmith: Aren't you with stickster?15:02
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* jsmith lurks15:02
jsmithSparks: guilty as charged... how'd you know?15:02
* stickster is here15:02
sticksterWhere's quaid?15:02
Sparksjsmith: I have a tracker on you...15:02
* stickster checking agenda15:03
Sparksstickster has an agenda?15:03
* stickster still looking15:05
sticksterOK, got it15:06
* ianweller waves15:06
sticksterLooks like there's a lot of stuff still hanging from the last meeting.15:06
jsmithimagine that15:06
sticksterI think the leadership stuff is in our "done" pile, right? No objections, no changes, so no item needed.15:06
ianwellerwhere is the agenda, for reference15:07
jsmithstickster: Right... we've agreed for the past several weeks that nobody disagrees15:07
sticksterYup, let's reclaim that slot.15:07
* stickster goes to edit that pgae.15:07
SparksWe agree not to disagree...  That's a change for a diverse organization.15:08
sticksterLet's talk instead about git.15:08
sticksterer, fedorahosted.15:08
sticksterToday I ran a test using git-cvsimport to see what our "worst" guide (from a revision control standpoint) looks like when it's git-ized15:09
sticksterComes out to 159 MB all told!15:09
sticksterThat's without having done any branching, just imported using:15:09
stickster git-cvsimport -p x -v -A ~/cvsdoc-authors.txt -d :ext:pfrields@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs install-guide15:10
sticksterThat "cvsdoc-authors.txt" file I got from the script I wrote earlier:15:10
ianwellerso would all of /cvs/docs be one git repo, or would they be split up like you did15:12
sticksterianweller: I *think* the idea is to do one per document15:12
ianwelleri would agree with that.15:13
sticksterBecause different documents are going to have different interest groups/contributor groups15:13
ianwelleralthough, is it necessary to have a different ACL for each document?15:13
sticksterianweller: I think the pain of a different ACL is minimal and it's worth letting the documentation grow out separately15:14
sticksterFrom a hand-wavy perspective, I'd like to be able to visualize cleanly which docs are attracting patches and which aren't15:14
sticksterI know that technically we could do that with all of them in one place, but honestly I'd rather have the option to keep maintainership separated15:15
sticksterFor purposes of bugs, etc....15:15
ianwellerwould each one have their own trac instance?15:15
ianwellerand, is that necessary?15:15
* ianweller is full of questions today apparently15:15
jsmithianweller: No, we all have the same questions... some of us are just waiting for you to ask them ;-)15:16
sticksterianweller: I don't have a *really* strong sentiment either way, but I want to make sure that the community can pick and choose which docs *not* to maintain without fear of impacting (statistics-wise) the "healthy" ones15:16
Sparksianweller: Yeah, can you ask mine next?15:16
ianwellerstickster: agreed15:17
ianwellerSparks: hmmmmmm. i dunno.15:17
sticksterianweller: Here's a good case, but a subtly different point15:17
sticksterThe Translation Quick Start Guide15:17
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sticksterif we put that in our docs repo, the ACL is up to docs15:17
sticksterWhen it probably should be up to L10N15:17
sticksterOr the "new" RPM book15:18
sticksterWhich has languished in our CVS for about a year and a half, maybe more.15:18
sticksterLet the developer community have at it.15:18
* quaid seems to be back from DSL/network troubles now15:19
jsmithquaid: Welcome back!15:20
ianwellerquaid: excellent15:20
sticksterFinally a REAL leader15:20
jsmithquaid: I was having network problems today too, but luckily I live close enough to stickster to mooch off his bandwidth15:20
ianwellerstickster: haha15:20
jsmithstickster: you forgot the "mua-ha-ha" in there15:20
quaidha, or not ... right after I said that, connection dropped for a minute15:21
quaidso don't figure I'm really here, please continue without me15:21
jsmithquaid: Don't worry about us... we'll delegate everything to you while you're gone15:21
sticksterOK, so quaid picks up that one.15:21
sticksterSo anyhoo15:22
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jsmithstickster: He's gonna move everything into git for us as well, right?15:23
quaidrecommend no on Trac, I think, for each guide15:23
quaidwe use bugzilla for bug/RFE, and the main wiki, so there isn't anything Trac-able15:23
sticksterWould we want to stay on BZ with the docs moving to hosted projects?15:23
* ianweller would like a little time to discuss wiki organization during this meeting too, whenever/if there's time15:24
quaidwould we want to split our project-wide bug tracking amongst N bug tools?15:24
sticksterquaid: No, one or t'other I think.15:24
SparksI would think we would want to stay on BZ .15:24
quaidwell, think about this15:24
SparksI like a single "Enterprise" solution...  :)15:24
sticksterThat would work fine, as long as we have a way of controlling (like CVS' "owners")15:24
* stickster not at all against sticking to BZ15:25
quaidwe can always move from BZ to Trac later15:25
quaidbut not as easily the other way15:25
* quaid dropped and came back, so is going to try a backseat on this confab now15:26
sticksterThat's really all I had on this -- just that I was trying out git15:26
sticksterI think there's got to be a better way to hook our "branches" up during the conversion, but darned if I know how.15:26
sticksterI may consult with one of our experts to *GIT* it done.15:26
sticksterGet it? GIT?!?15:26
sticksterNow THAT'S funny right thar.15:27
quaidarr arr humor!15:27
jsmithquaid: And you just thought "humorous" was a bone in your arm15:27
quaidstill do15:27
jsmithOK... shall we continue on?15:28
* stickster turns it over to ianweller who's aching to talk about wiki!15:28
ianwelleroh ok!15:29
ianwelleruhm right now the wiki is still a bit of a mess. we have these sorta-kinda guidelines drawn up in our heads of how we want the wiki to be organized, but its time for the docs team to come up with a proposal and policy on how to organize the wiki15:29
ianwellerquaid and i have been sorta kinda working on that, but its not often when we're both thinking about doing it at the same time. ;)15:30
ianweller(we tried to do something at FUDCon but the EPEL meeting went rly long that friday)15:30
ianwelleranywho, anyone in here wanting to work on that with quaid and i?15:30
Sparksianweller: I'd like to but my availability over the next few weeks is going to be slim.15:31
Sparksianweller: I can try to be available in the evenings, though.15:32
ianwelleri'm going to attempt (and probably fail) to write up a very early draft tonight15:32
quaidyeah, async might be the best, sadly15:32
ianwellerhopefully we can get it in an approvable state by next week.15:33
ianwellerquaid: ?15:33
ianwelleroh. i see15:33
ianwellerok well i'll start putting my ideas to a wiki page tonight, hopefully15:33
jsmithquaid's network is off and on15:33
quaidthe big questions are?15:33
ianwellerwell the biggest questions, in my mind, is 1) how are we going to require spacing -- are we simply going to deprecate CamelCase/no spaces or are we going to try and move each and every page to something reasonable?15:34
quaidone I see is the nested v. non-nested15:34
ianwellerand 2) where do we draw the line between categories and namespaces15:35
ianwellerquaid: that too15:35
quaidsounds like we need to move important pages to have spaces so we get good search results15:35
ianwelleralso, a lot of pages currently are shortened so that we have the gist of what it's talking about, but it isn't enough.15:36
quaidI feel good about our discussions on categories and namespaces; that one should make sense to people15:36
jsmithquaid: What metric are you using to measure how well the search works?15:36
quaidbut the nesting and having to change names for search is going to be .. contentious15:36
ianwelleri'm looking at a category list right now, and Category:AcceptedFedora10 isn't cutting it15:36
quaidianweller: why?15:36
jsmithquaid: Not trying to be snarky, just wondering if it's a solution waiting for a problem, as I've *never* had a problem with the wiki search not finding what I was looking for15:36
quaidianweller: poelcat used that to good effect in Moin Moin,15:36
ianwellerbut we can do better15:36
ianwellersuch as Category:Accepted features for Fedora 1015:37
ianwelleror something more obvious to the newbie15:37
poelcatianweller: i haven't looked at any of that stuff yet, but it is on my list for today15:37
ianwellerpoelcat: oh ok15:37
poelcatfeature wrangling that is... it was on hold while fesco sorted out who owned what15:37
poelcati'm watching a few feature pages, but I haven't looked at anything really since it was in Moin15:38
ianwellerpoelcat: i was just using it as an example :)15:38
quaidjsmith: aiui, MW does not do wildcard searching in page titles by default15:38
quaidpoelcat: now you know to use long names with spaces for Category: :)15:38
poelcatnp... i just saw my nick light up the window15:38
quaidthx, I wanted to address if we had to mess with the workflow in any way15:39
quaidsounds like not.15:39
quaidjust the naming details15:39
ianwelleralso, some other things of organization i'm worried about15:39
quaidianweller: +1 on long names that make sense; CamelCase tends to discourage that becaus eof readability15:39
ianwellerquaid: k15:39
quaidooh, cool special page15:39
ianwellerthat special page is a list of uncategorized pages, if you haven't derived that already15:40
ianwellerthat page should be empty, as far as i'm concerned15:40
quaidhmm, interesting15:40
quaidto do that we want to give more guidelines15:40
ianwellerin addition, another interesting special page -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Uncategorizedcategories15:40
ianwellerthe point of that one is to promote category nesting, using subcategories. which we should also do15:41
ianwellerso for example, Category:Accepted features for Fedora 10 could be a subcategory of both Category:Fedora 10 and Category:Accepted features15:41
quaide.g., how would you categorize Ambassador from EMEA meetings?15:41
ianwellerquaid: what pages are you talking about specifically?15:42
Sparkswow, there are a LOT of uncategorized pages out there15:42
ianwellerSparks: yup.15:42
ianwelleri'm not going to bother counting. i'll have a bot do that.15:42
Sparkssome of that can be EASILY fixed.15:43
ianwellerafter we get organization guidelines approved, we really need to get as many people as we can and just work on the wiki for as long as we can, or until its done.15:43
quaidsorry, I'm out of sync with net drops15:43
jsmithianweller: Yeah... docs guys seem to be busy enough as it is right now, but it might be a good project to help train new recruits15:44
ianwelleri'm thinking of something like BugZappers. anyone can do it!15:44
quaidwhat I meant was, if you have a page that is a set of notes from a meeting, how is that categorized?15:44
quaidcan we give people a formula they can repeat?15:44
ianwelleri think we can. and we can prolly include those in the guidelines15:45
* ianweller would use Category:Minutes15:45
quaidbut still we'll have duplicates that are near15:45
SparksShouldn't the notes be categorized with the group who created them?15:45
ianwellerSparks: that too.15:45
ianwellerpages should have as many categories that make sense15:45
SparksLike Category:DocsProject or Category:Docs Project Meeting Minutes15:46
quaid+1 to cat by groupCategory:Minutes Ambassadors EMEA15:46
quaidwhile another perosn does Category:Ambassadors EMEA Minutes15:46
ianwelleri'd have DocsProject, DocsProject Meetings, Minutes, DocsProject Meetings in June, Meetings in June15:46
ianwellers/June/June 2008/g15:46
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jsmithSo you're essentially using categories as folksonomies?15:47
* jsmith probably spelled that wrong15:47
quaidakin to tagging15:47
SparksThere should be some standard for categories if not wiki-wide then at least project-wide15:48
jsmithExactly... do we want taxonomy or folksonomy?15:48
ianwellercategories on mediawiki are not necessarily categories... they are more like tags imho15:48
jsmithstrict categories for free-for-all categories?15:48
quaidhave to do free for all15:48
ianwellerfree-for-all, +115:48
quaidcan't predict all possibles15:48
quaidwe can inform people how to organize it15:48
jsmithI've never seen free-for-all tagging work well15:48
jsmithNot that it *can't* work well15:48
quaidit does all right for del.icio.us where you see the multiple types15:49
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quaidbut, yeah15:49
* ianweller points to how wikipedia does it15:49
quaidjsmith: each proj/sig needs to form guidelines too15:49
ianwelleri've seen pages with 3 lines of categories...15:49
jsmithIt's just going to be near impossible to get people trained to tag all meetings in June with the "Meetings in June" categories15:49
quaidguidelines should request/require some kind of minimum15:49
quaidcategories should include ...15:50
quaidstill, hard to preduct15:50
ianwellerif anything, the minimum should be 1) something that says what project/SIG it's a part of, and 2) what that page is meant to be15:50
ianwellerdocumentation, howto, whatever15:50
quaidyeah, like that15:51
* ianweller is trying to think if there's anything else wiki-wise we should discuss right now15:53
ianwellerah, images should probably be categorized too.15:53
quaidwhat specific list of things do we need to write up?15:53
ianwellerwhat do you mean, for the policy draft?15:54
ianwellerso far...15:54
ianweller1) renaming/moving of pages15:55
ianweller2) uber-categorization15:55
ianweller3) namespaces if deemed necessary15:55
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* stickster notes 4 min to vacate15:56
ianwelleroh geez.15:56
ianwellerwell if anybody has anything else to do, say it now15:56
quaidianweller: can you add these to a wiki page?  we can then help expand form there15:56
ianwellerwe can discuss wiki stuff more back in #fedora-docs15:56
ianwellerquaid: i will15:56
fugolinithere aren't problems, continue with the meeting15:57
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* ianweller has to go, i'll get this stuff up on the wiki later this evening15:59
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fugoliniis there someone from FAmSCo?16:07
* iWolf is here16:10
fugolinii hope we could be at least 3 or 416:10
fugolinisorry if i didn't send the reminder16:10
fugolinibut i had an exam this afternoon16:11
iWolfno worries.16:11
iWolfschool still keeping you busy?16:11
fugolinii had 7 exams out 9 to pass16:12
fugolinii gave two in february16:13
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iWolfwow!  that is a lot of exams!16:13
fugoliniin italy we have a different system for bachelor16:13
fugolinieach exam has a point, and you have to rise in 3y 180 to get the bachelor16:14
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fugolinijust wait 2 more minutes16:15
iWolfinteresting, so you have to pass 180 exams to get the bachelor?16:15
fugolini180 points at total16:15
fugolinieach exams has a number of points e.g. 8 for Law; etc16:15
iWolfah, i see.16:15
iWolfhow far along are you?16:16
fugolinii changed faculty, so i had to restart everything, now i'm near 6016:17
fugoliniI will set the new meeting for friday, if everyone agree16:18
fugolininow we can have an informal meeting about the last issues...16:18
iWolfthat's fine with me.  doesn't look like we have anyone else here.16:18
fugoliniThe most important issue are: Budget, just to ask Max if everything goes well16:19
fugoliniand then work on the open issues16:19
fugoliniand the new ones16:19
fugolinithere is a hidden proposal about the Rules and more16:20
fugolinipersonally i didn't push it, just opened a wiki page16:21
fugoliniand send some mails16:21
fugolinibut i think we have to work on it16:21
iWolfsounds good.16:21
fugolinijust because we have to improve our Event Budget system16:21
fugolinijust because we need people focusing on this important issue16:21
iWolfyeah, we need it documented so future famsco members can have a system to work with.16:21
fugolinithat is one the core of our work16:22
fugoliniand with the growth of local administrators16:22
fugoliniwe will focus more and more on budget16:22
fugolinii think we have to pay more attention on this one16:23
fugolinii apologize for my last month16:24
fugoliniand for the next week (last exam)16:24
fugolinibut we have to create a structure that easily could effort all people necessities and could be 24/24 365/365 working16:25
fugoliniwith one or all members16:25
iWolfi know you've been busy.16:25
fugoliniso we have to simplify, or better, concentrate ourselves on some critical topics, and give some power to local administrators (membership, with the constant guide of FAmSCo)16:26
iWolfwe still have time to make a push to get some of the processes documented.  we can break some of it to task lists at the next meeting.16:26
fugoliniso, hope to see you in the next meeting16:29
iWolfi should be there, schedule looks open as of now.16:29
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fugoliniunfortunately is not easy to have a common day16:29
iWolfyeah, scheduling can sometimes be tricky.  The time differences narrow down the options a good amount.16:32
fugolinii invite in my last mail to bold the preferred day in the calendar page16:33
fugolinii think it could be a helpfull system to focus the best day16:33
iWolfit can't hurt!   :)16:36
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fugolininow i've to go16:41
fugolinisee you soon16:41
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RodrigoPadulaohh i'm late19:02
roguedaemon1st is never late :)19:03
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RodrigoPadulaHolla Amigos!20:49
Matias_Argbuenas Rodrigo20:49
roguedaemonhasta tomorrow20:49
roguedaemonoops lol how'd i get over here20:50
* roguedaemon runs20:50
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Nushiocomenzamos la reunión?21:02
RodrigoPadulaquantas personas tenemos  ?21:03
Nushio+1, JuanRodriguez21:03
Matias_Arg+1 MatiasMaceira21:04
RodrigoPadula+ Rodrigo Padula21:04
gomixlista plis21:05
Matias_Argperdonen vuelvo en 5 min. pero cuenten conmigo para la reunion ;)21:07
gomixalguien plis que tome batuta21:14
gomixpara rotar la funcion :P21:14
gomixla agenda es acerca del wiki y los contenidos21:14
Nushioles molesta si dirigo hoy?21:14
gomixpor favor...21:14
Nushiobien. Es mi primera vez en esto, asi que disculpen el desorden21:15
NushioPrimero que nada, Lista21:15
Nushiotenemos a MatiasMaceira, RodrigoPadula, GuillermoGomez y JuanRodriguez21:15
Nushiofalta alguien?21:15
RodrigoPadulayo estoy aqui21:16
RodrigoPadulaLibertadores: LDU x Fluminense   jejeje21:16
NushioBueno, Primer tema, Wiki21:17
NushioActualmente me encuentro migrando el contenido del wiki de Fedora-Ve (http://wiki.fedora-ve.org) hacia el wiki de proyecto fedora (http://proyectofedora.org/wiki)21:18
NushioEstimo que para mañana en la mañana ya debe estar el contenido migrado completamente21:19
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Nushio> Matias_Arg21:20
Matias_Argcomo es el tema de los permisos para escribir en el wiki?21:21
Nushio> Nushio21:21
NushioActualmente tenemos sincronizado todo con Drupal, instalado en la raiz (http://ProyectoFedora.org)21:21
NushioUtilizando el username y password en drupal puedes accesar a los foros (/forum), y al wiki21:22
Nushioesto aun no esta documentado en el wiki21:22
Nushio> Matias_Arg21:23
Matias_Arghay que registrarse? o con el user y el pass de fedoraproject podemos agregar o editar?21:23
Nushio> Nushio21:24
NushioActualmente hay que registrarse en Drupal por 2 motivos21:24
Nushio1) registrarse en fedoraproject actualmente es un proceso un poco complicado, lo que disminuye el posible número de contribuyentes21:24
Nushioy 2) motivos técnicos (ligar fedoraproject.org con los foros, y el wiki)21:25
Matias_Arg! ok21:25
Nushio> Matias_Arg21:27
Matias_Arglos contenidos del wiki21:28
Matias_Argvan a ser como21:28
Matias_Arglos de Fedora-ve? me refiero a la organizacion21:28
Nushio> Nushio21:29
NushioGomix, tienes comentarios al respecto?21:29
NushioGomix ha manejado la wiki de fedora-ve, y supongo nos puede dar sus comentarios y experiencias administrandola21:30
gomixdar permisos de escritura a quien solicite21:30
gomixspam es una piña21:30
gomix:P eof21:30
Nushio> Matias_Arg21:30
Matias_Argel spam no puede evitarse?21:31
Matias_Argdigo dando permisos personalizados21:31
Matias_Argo alguna otra forma... que no requiera21:31
Matias_Argque cualquiera pueda registrarse21:31
Matias_Argperdon... que evite que cualquiera pueda registrarse21:31
Nushio> Nushio21:31
Nushioactualmente el usuario que se registre tiene permisos de escritura en los foros y en el wiki21:32
Nushiopor suerte, los sistemas de spamming no son suficientemente astutos hoy en dia para detectar que el username proviene de otra parte del sitio21:32
Nushio(o por lo menos eso supongo)21:32
Nushiopudiera crear un modulo de control de usuarios, donde los usuarios escriban algunas palabras donde pidan permiso para editar el wiki21:33
Nushiode manera que el permiso de escritrua sería otorgado al confirmar que es humano, y no maquina, quien lo solicita21:33
Nushioeso sería en un futuro, sin embargo, no "ahora mismo"21:34
Nushio> Matias_Arg21:34
Matias_Argse me ocurre que podriamos (varios no uno solo por supuesto)21:34
Matias_Argresponder los correos otorgando permisos21:34
Matias_Arga travez de algun modulo de adm.21:34
Matias_Argutilizando alguna cuenta general para subscripcion21:35
Matias_Argenviando de esa forma el pass para poder ingresar21:35
Matias_Argo algun metodo similar21:35
Nushio> Nushio: por supuesto, algo asi es la idea, no centralizar el poder en 1 o 2, sino muchos.21:35
Nushioquizas no por correo21:35
Nushioquizas enviar un correo a una lista, notificando que un usuario acaba de registrarse al sitio21:35
Nushio> gomix21:36
gomixel registro del usuario debe tener un...21:36
gomixlas imagenes esas para evitar el regsitro de cualquiera21:36
gomixeso reduce bastante... junto con la confirmacion por email21:36
gomixde todas formas... la escritura.... puede quedar abierta21:37
gomixmientra el sistema antispam sea razonablemente bueno21:37
Nushio> RodrigoPadula21:37
RodrigoPadulacreo que devemos utilizar la confirmacion por correo de las nuevas contas21:37
RodrigoPadulaasí no tenemos problemas com spam21:37
RodrigoPadulaahora sí... estou vendo resultados en el proyecto LATAM21:38
RodrigoPadulaCongratulations para todos los miembros21:38
Nushio> Nushio21:38
NushioSi, puedo poner confirmación via email, inclusive capcha (aun que no me agrada)21:38
Nushioel captcha es burlable por las maquinas, y molesto para los usuarios21:38
Nushiocreo que lo mejor sería poner un campo de "escribe por que quieres permisos de escritura en el wiki" o algo similar21:39
Nushiode esta forma podríamos leer los comentarios del usuario, y si estan en blanco, o contienen spam, se ignoran?21:39
Nushio> Matias_Arg21:39
Matias_Argcreo que se podria solicitar se envie un correo con ciertos datos (nombre y apellido, pais y el porque de utilizar21:40
Matias_Argel wiki y le enviamos un correo21:40
Matias_Argpara ello21:40
Matias_Argdebieramos ser mas de uno administrando21:40
Matias_Argyo me ofrezco a ayudar21:40
Matias_Argcon esta tarea21:41
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Nushio> Nushio21:41
NushioMatias_Arg, con gusto, actualmente creo que hay 3 con poderes administrativos21:41
Matias_Argk0k buenas21:42
Nushioy de esos 3, solo yo cuento con poderes admin sobre wiki, foros y drupal, y además se administrarlos21:42
Nushiohay que determinar administradores21:42
Nushio> Gomix21:42
gomixyo ayudo en la admin del wiki21:43
gomixpara efectos de seguimiento de los privilegios .... y revocacion21:43
Nushio> Matias_Arg21:43
Matias_Argsi hace falta cuenten conmigo, pero creo que debieramos mandar un correo a la lista latam21:44
Matias_Argpidiendo (exigiendo dentro de las posibilidades)21:44
Matias_Argque todos los embajadores se registren al menos en el wiki21:44
Matias_Argpara por lo menos saber con que recursos humanos contamos21:45
Nushio> Nushio21:45
NushioVoy a enviar un correo a la lista, pidiendo que se listen los embajadores activos21:45
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amoncadaperdon por la tardanza21:47
Matias_Argamoncada hola ;)21:47
RodrigoPadulaamoncada: hola, no problem21:47
RodrigoPadulayo creo que tenemos que contatar todos los embajadores latinos por correo y invitarlos para la lista LATAM21:48
RodrigoPadulasi possible, identificar possibles ambajadores en los otros paises e en su paises21:49
RodrigoPadulapara tenermos mas personas a colaborar21:49
Matias_Argalguien que regule. pareciera que Nushio tuvo algun inconveniente21:49
Matias_Argtomo la batuta hasta que vuelva21:50
Matias_Argya se que existen varios lugares21:50
Matias_Argde contacto21:50
Matias_Argno sería mas productivo21:50
Matias_Argasi como estamos haciendo el wiki21:50
Matias_Argparticipar de un canal de irc21:50
Matias_Argmasivo ?21:51
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Matias_Argte devuelvo la batuta de la reunion21:51
Nushio_(No me he ido, y he leido todo, supongo que tengo problemas para enviar mensajes)21:51
Nushio_jaja, gracias21:51
Nushio_en teoría, es "imposible" reunir a todos los embajadores en una reunion de irc21:52
Nushio_para eso tenemos juntas semanales, donde se reunen "los que pueden"21:52
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Nushio_la lista de correo, por tanto, permite que las personas que desean participar, pero no pueden asistir a la junta, digan sus opiniones21:52
Nushio_> Matias_Arg21:53
Matias_Argde estas reuniones queda algo de lo que se hablo en algun lado?21:53
Matias_Argse podria enviar un correo a la lista. entonces asi el que no esta21:53
amoncaday si usamos los alias de fedoraproject para contactarlos, solo es tener el listado, ese lo podemos conseguir con gente del fas21:53
Matias_Argde acuerdo con algo la proxima reunion seguramente21:53
Matias_Argentra a comentar algo.21:53
Nushio_> Nushio21:53
Nushio_Matias_Arg: siempre enviamos una copia del chatlog de las reuniones a la lista de correo21:53
Nushio_salvo la última reunion, que creo que nadie lo envió21:54
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Nushio_amoncada: si, esa es una idea, sin embargo actualmente no tenemos al 100% que embajador es de donde21:54
Nushio_debo salir en 5 minutos, alguien quiere tomar el control?21:54
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Matias_Arg! tomo la batuta.21:55
Matias_Arg> RodrigoPadula21:55
RodrigoPadulatenem contacto con los embajadores de Nicaragua ?21:55
Nushio_(si, tenemos contacto con nicaragua)21:56
RodrigoPadulaahora yo estoy responsabile por los embajadores latinos21:56
Nushio_(me retiro, saludos y buenas noches, disculpen la interrupción)21:56
RodrigoPadulalos nuevos embajadores serão contactados por mi21:56
Matias_Argsaludos Nushio21:56
Matias_ArgRodrigoPadula Congratulations21:57
RodrigoPadulaen al proxima semana yo teré mas informaciones21:57
RodrigoPadulay tambien estaré estudiando un poquito mas de spanol jejeje21:57
Matias_Arg> amoncada21:57
Matias_Arg> amoncada21:58
Matias_Argno problem21:59
gomixbuenas noches ...22:00
gomixme retiro22:00
gomixsaludos a todos22:00
gomixgracias por venir22:00
amoncadalas iniciativas del proyecto ahora en colombia se estan enfocando en el campus party colombia estamos buscana atraer nuevas ideas y nuuevas personas22:00
Matias_Arggomix: buenas noches.22:00
gomixnos vemos el miercoles que viene para resumir22:00
gomixy hacer seguimiento22:00
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Matias_Argamoncada eof?22:01
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Matias_Argmuy buenas noticias amoncada.Congratulations22:03
Matias_Argalguien mas quiere agregar algo? creo que ya esta la minuta prevista22:04
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Matias_ArgSe da por finalizada la reunion?22:05
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Matias_Ar1perdon. alguien que guarde la conversacion. asi se la envia por correo?22:13
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dgilmorea/window 4222:55
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 26 00:00:06 2008

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