| --- Log opened Wed Aug 13 11:07:16 2008 | ||
| -!- mnowak_ [n=mnowak@c02-425a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:07 | |
| wwoods | f13 has done some very early beta composes so we can test media stuff in advance of the freeze | 11:08 |
|---|---|---|
| wwoods | clumens and I have been working with those to iron out some bugs before we hit the freeze | 11:08 |
| jlaska | are those available for community love, or is this for internal testing prior to release? | 11:08 |
| wwoods | internal. we're not even at the "test build" stage yet | 11:09 |
| wwoods | freeze hasn't even hit | 11:09 |
| wwoods | we're just doing some pungi spins to make sure stuff isn't really broken | 11:09 |
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| wwoods | nothing magical about these spins - they aren't signed, they haven't got special packages, no tag | 11:10 |
| wwoods | just composing isos from rawhide to see what blows up | 11:10 |
| wwoods | it's been a useful exercise so far | 11:10 |
| jlaska | gotcha, makes sense | 11:10 |
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| -!- fbijlsma [n=fbijlsma@92.50.110.191] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:11 | |
| wwoods | so the Beta freeze is.. next tuesday | 11:11 |
| wwoods | well. this coming tuesday, I should say. 6 days from now. | 11:12 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Beta Freeze | 11:13 | |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Beta Freeze / Feature Freeze | 11:13 | |
| wwoods | beta means feature freeze, and that means there's a buttload of features up for FESCo review | 11:13 |
| wwoods | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:FeatureReadyForFesco | 11:13 |
| wwoods | FESCo wants QA input on whether these things are testable / whether the test plan makes sense | 11:14 |
| wwoods | so that's 19 Test Plan sections to go over. woof. | 11:15 |
| wwoods | do we want to run through them real quick right now | 11:15 |
| wwoods | or divide 'em up to be looked at before the FESCo meeting | 11:16 |
| wwoods | aw crap. I forgot, they moved it. it's in 3 hours. | 11:16 |
| wwoods | so, okay, after this meeting we'll go through the feature pages in #fedora-qa | 11:17 |
| stickster | Is this an exercise in common sense, or is there a list of requirements for the test plan? | 11:17 |
| wwoods | and check out the test plans. | 11:17 |
| wwoods | stickster: common sense, really. It's hard to rigorously define "the test plan must be both simple and complete" | 11:18 |
| stickster | *nod | 11:18 |
| wwoods | the common sense guideline is: assume you have a summer intern who has used Fedora for a couple years now | 11:18 |
| wwoods | now, tell your intern how to test the feature | 11:18 |
| wwoods | I sent mail outlining the process a while back.. think poelcat said he was integrating it into the feature pages somewhere? | 11:19 |
| wwoods | poelcat? | 11:19 |
| poelcat | hmm.. which process was that? | 11:20 |
| wwoods | writing test plans | 11:20 |
| jlaska | I've got a proposed list of some requirements needed to build out a test plan (http://jlaska.livejournal.com/710.html) ... would welcome feedback | 11:20 |
| poelcat | wwoods: i added your guidance to the blank feature template | 11:20 |
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| wwoods | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-July/msg00912.html was the mail | 11:21 |
| zodbot | <http://tinyurl.com/6cktw3> (at www.redhat.com) | 11:21 |
| wwoods | poelcat: link? | 11:22 |
| wwoods | oh, the message box at the top of Features/Policy links to it.. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EmptyTemplate | 11:22 |
| poelcat | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EmptyTemplate#Test_Plan | 11:22 |
| zodbot | <http://tinyurl.com/5v4xrn> (at fedoraproject.org) | 11:23 |
| poelcat | click edit for that section | 11:23 |
| wwoods | i.e. https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Features/EmptyTemplate&action=edit§ion=8 | 11:23 |
| zodbot | <http://tinyurl.com/63ctso> (at fedoraproject.org) | 11:23 |
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| wwoods | kcool | 11:23 |
| wwoods | so there are the guidelines for good test plans | 11:24 |
| wwoods | if you've got some time and/or a favorite feature you want to help test | 11:24 |
| wwoods | please come by #fedora-qa after this meeting ends (~1200EDT/1600UTC) | 11:25 |
| wwoods | and help look over the test plan(s) | 11:25 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Beta Bugs | 11:27 | |
| wwoods | I've just moved the last open F10Alpha blocker to F10Beta | 11:27 |
| wwoods | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=F10Beta&hide_resolved=1 | 11:27 |
| zodbot | <http://tinyurl.com/63sdd7> (at bugzilla.redhat.com) | 11:27 |
| wwoods | Power 6 netboot.. is probably not actually a beta blocker | 11:28 |
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| wwoods | but anyway, if you encounter blockerworthy bugs | 11:29 |
| jlaska | I suspect that one isn't power6 specific (coudl be wrong) ... possibly more yaboot network boot support | 11:29 |
| jlaska | ah ... scratch that ... /me reads initial comment indicating power5 works | 11:29 |
| wwoods | (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria defines blockerworthy) | 11:29 |
| wwoods | make *dang* sure the bugs are filed | 11:30 |
| wwoods | and that they block F10Beta | 11:30 |
| jlaska | wwoods: is that NFS iso install stuff being tracked on F10Beta? | 11:30 |
| wwoods | do you see it on the blocker list? | 11:30 |
| jlaska | I did not ... does that mean it works now, or hasn't been filed? | 11:30 |
| jwilliam | anonymous ftp install seems messed up. | 11:30 |
| wwoods | ReleaseCriteria needs an update. sigh. | 11:30 |
| wwoods | jlaska: probably the latter | 11:31 |
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| wwoods | I thought there was a bug about it though | 11:31 |
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| wwoods | hrm | 11:32 |
| wwoods | bug 443291 is a nfsiso bug but it's closed rawhide | 11:32 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=443291 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list@redhat.com, CLOSED RAWHIDE, ISO image via NFS, got "Missing ISO 9660 image" and failed to install | 11:32 |
| jlaska | sweet | 11:32 |
| -!- clumens [n=chris@nat/redhat/x-6d120d9cc009bbb1] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:32 | |
| clumens | WHOMP | 11:32 |
| wwoods | clumens: howdy | 11:32 |
| wwoods | is there a current nfsiso bug filed? | 11:32 |
| wwoods | we're doing a quick review of potential f10beta blockers | 11:33 |
| clumens | what's the specific problem? | 11:33 |
| wwoods | jlaska: you wanna take that? | 11:33 |
| jlaska | I know you guys were working a few NFS ISO and HD ISO install issues lately, wasn't sure if that was tracked in a feature bz or needs still needs a bz | 11:33 |
| clumens | there may very well be. i'll look while you tell me what's up. | 11:33 |
| wwoods | ah so you're not specifically encountering a problem yourself, just making sure that we're tracking 'em | 11:34 |
| wwoods | well that's part of the reason we built some iso images | 11:34 |
| wwoods | heh | 11:34 |
| jlaska | Eggsellent, sounds like your on it | 11:34 |
| clumens | nfsiso: no i don't know of any specific bugs | 11:34 |
| clumens | hdiso: yes, there are a handful | 11:35 |
| * jwilliam has tried that method=nfsiso:server/path and and images/stage2.img and it still doesn't work, but thought that it was fixed in ananaconda, but would need some way to get new ananconda. | 11:35 | |
| clumens | i think we need to release note a bunch of things around this, by the way | 11:35 |
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| jlaska | stickster: is there a template for folks to begin populating http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Beta/ReleaseNotes ? | 11:35 |
| stickster | jlaska: Actually, you can use the Alpha relnotes as a starting point: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Alpha/ReleaseNotes | 11:36 |
| zodbot | <http://tinyurl.com/6dohdh> (at fedoraproject.org) | 11:36 |
| stickster | Sorry, should have been https:// | 11:36 |
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| jlaska | stickster: any preference on carrying the same Alpha content forward ... or start fresh (but with same format) | 11:39 |
| wwoods | jwilliam: I believe releng is working on getting rawhide out (I'm told there was a system crash last night) | 11:39 |
| clumens | jwb: gonna need some more details to know what's going on there | 11:40 |
| clumens | err jwilliam: same comment. | 11:40 |
| wwoods | once we have some functioning iso images I'll retry hdiso | 11:40 |
| stickster | jlaska: What I would suggest is that status changes on the Alpha notes should appear in the Beta. For instance, some of the Plymouth content still applies, but a few of the bullets may need revisiting to reflect the current status of the feature. | 11:41 |
| wwoods | probably I'll get someone else to do nfsiso, but yeah, it's contingent on having new images | 11:42 |
| stickster | Since not everyone who tries the Beta necessarily tried the Alpha, nor read its release notes, they should stand on their own. | 11:42 |
| wwoods | stickster: yeah, experience has shown us that a *lot* more people try the Beta | 11:42 |
| stickster | The blessing/curse of the terminology | 11:42 |
| * jwilliam wonders about alpha 2 vs Beta | 11:43 | |
| wwoods | yeah, sometimes I think we oughtta shuffle things so that Beta happens post-featurefreeze | 11:43 |
| wwoods | right - alpha 1, alpha 2 (feature freeze), beta, release | 11:43 |
| wwoods | that's a discussion for another day though | 11:44 |
| jlaska | stickster: thx | 11:44 |
| poelcat | feature freeze: 2008-08-19; beta release: 2008-09-02 | 11:44 |
| wwoods | poelcat: feature freeze == beta freeze | 11:44 |
| wwoods | we invariably have features that are untestable or just plain missing | 11:44 |
| wwoods | for Beta | 11:44 |
| poelcat | which means they should be dropped from the release | 11:45 |
| poelcat | and queued for the next release | 11:45 |
| wwoods | that is also an acceptable solution | 11:45 |
| wwoods | but that's never what happens | 11:45 |
| wwoods | so let's try to push FESCo to be more aggressive about dropping late features | 11:46 |
| wwoods | and if that doesn't work we'll discuss renaming the releases | 11:46 |
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| wwoods | either way, Beta should have every feature present and testable | 11:46 |
| wwoods | anyway | 11:47 |
| wwoods | the rawhide-based pungi spin I'm using seems to work OK, so I'm gonna retest a few things (nfsiso/hdiso/ks on hd/etc) | 11:48 |
| wwoods | also need to do some dev work on getting preupgrade code testable | 11:48 |
| wwoods | anything else we should talk about here | 11:49 |
| wwoods | potential beta blockers, problems with release criteria, test plans, whatever | 11:49 |
| wwoods | oh, another tangential thing I want for future Betas: new artwork | 11:50 |
| * jwilliam wonders about startup and posibility of starting things in background. | 11:50 | |
| wwoods | jwilliam: startup of.. what | 11:50 |
| wwoods | system startup? | 11:50 |
| jwilliam | rc stuff | 11:50 |
| jwilliam | like cups | 11:50 |
| wwoods | that's an enormously complex topic | 11:50 |
| wwoods | and not really QA-oriented | 11:50 |
| jlaska | FYI ... tomorrow we'll be hosting a Fedora Test Day with focus on encrypted installs and plymouth (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2008-August/msg00220.html). Any and all are welcome to join and help bang on the bits | 11:50 |
| zodbot | <http://tinyurl.com/6cyn6m> (at www.redhat.com) | 11:50 |
| wwoods | jwilliam: but check out http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/30SecondStartup | 11:50 |
| * jwilliam was looking at that, that is why the question | 11:51 | |
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| wwoods | and keep in mind that we're using Upstart now, and it's just hit 0.5.0, which could let us do some significant rewriting of the rc process for F11 | 11:51 |
| wwoods | waaaayyyy too late for F10 though | 11:51 |
| jwilliam | k | 11:51 |
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| wwoods | any other QA stuff, or should us east-coasters break for lunch | 11:52 |
| * jwilliam was also wondering about way to tie qa test to bugzilla. | 11:53 | |
| poelcat | wwoods: if you encounter features that are not testable or present in the beta... please bring to my attention | 11:53 |
| poelcat | they will be dropped as we have in the past | 11:53 |
| wwoods | poelcat: will do | 11:53 |
| jlaska | come one, come all ... Fedora Test Day tomorrow :) | 11:54 |
| wwoods | whee fun! | 11:55 |
| wwoods | as I understand it we might actually have modesetting now? | 11:55 |
| wwoods | so testing plymouth is very timely? | 11:55 |
| wwoods | we'll see, I guess | 11:56 |
| jlaska | yeah possibly, and if not ... there'll be plenty to poke at | 11:56 |
| wwoods | indeed | 11:56 |
| wwoods | okay, meeting time over | 11:56 |
| wwoods | lunch for me, and then we will poke through feature test plans | 11:56 |
| wwoods | thanks for your time and help, folks | 11:57 |
| --- Log closed Wed Aug 13 11:57:14 2008 | ||
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