--- Log opened Wed Aug 13 11:07:16 2008
-!- mnowak_ [n=mnowak@c02-425a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting11:07
wwoodsf13 has done some very early beta composes so we can test media stuff in advance of the freeze11:08
wwoodsclumens and I have been working with those to iron out some bugs before we hit the freeze11:08
jlaskaare those available for community love, or is this for internal testing prior to release?11:08
wwoodsinternal. we're not even at the "test build" stage yet11:09
wwoodsfreeze hasn't even hit11:09
wwoodswe're just doing some pungi spins to make sure stuff isn't really broken11:09
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wwoodsnothing magical about these spins - they aren't signed, they haven't got special packages, no tag11:10
wwoodsjust composing isos from rawhide to see what blows up11:10
wwoodsit's been a useful exercise so far11:10
jlaskagotcha, makes sense11:10
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wwoodsso the Beta freeze is.. next tuesday11:11
wwoodswell. this coming tuesday, I should say. 6 days from now.11:12
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Beta Freeze11:13
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Beta Freeze / Feature Freeze11:13
wwoodsbeta means feature freeze, and that means there's a buttload of features up for FESCo review11:13
wwoodsFESCo wants QA input on whether these things are testable / whether the test plan makes sense11:14
wwoodsso that's 19 Test Plan sections to go over. woof. 11:15
wwoodsdo we want to run through them real quick right now11:15
wwoodsor divide 'em up to be looked at before the FESCo meeting11:16
wwoodsaw crap. I forgot, they moved it. it's in 3 hours.11:16
wwoodsso, okay, after this meeting we'll go through the feature pages in #fedora-qa11:17
sticksterIs this an exercise in common sense, or is there a list of requirements for the test plan?11:17
wwoodsand check out the test plans.11:17
wwoodsstickster: common sense, really. It's hard to rigorously define "the test plan must be both simple and complete"11:18
wwoodsthe common sense guideline is: assume you have a summer intern who has used Fedora for a couple years now11:18
wwoodsnow, tell your intern how to test the feature11:18
wwoodsI sent mail outlining the process a while back.. think poelcat said he was integrating it into the feature pages somewhere?11:19
poelcathmm.. which process was that?11:20
wwoodswriting test plans11:20
jlaskaI've got a proposed list of some requirements needed to build out a test plan (http://jlaska.livejournal.com/710.html) ... would welcome feedback11:20
poelcatwwoods: i added your guidance to the blank feature template11:20
-!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@p4FDD252C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #fedora-meeting11:20
wwoodshttps://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-July/msg00912.html was the mail11:21
zodbot<http://tinyurl.com/6cktw3> (at www.redhat.com)11:21
wwoodspoelcat: link?11:22
wwoodsoh, the message box at the top of Features/Policy links to it.. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EmptyTemplate11:22
zodbot<http://tinyurl.com/5v4xrn> (at fedoraproject.org)11:23
poelcatclick edit for that section11:23
wwoodsi.e. https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Features/EmptyTemplate&action=edit&section=811:23
zodbot<http://tinyurl.com/63ctso> (at fedoraproject.org)11:23
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wwoodsso there are the guidelines for good test plans11:24
wwoodsif you've got some time and/or a favorite feature you want to help test11:24
wwoodsplease come by #fedora-qa after this meeting ends (~1200EDT/1600UTC) 11:25
wwoodsand help look over the test plan(s)11:25
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Beta Bugs11:27
wwoodsI've just moved the last open F10Alpha blocker to F10Beta11:27
zodbot<http://tinyurl.com/63sdd7> (at bugzilla.redhat.com)11:27
wwoodsPower 6 netboot.. is probably not actually a beta blocker11:28
-!- cassmodiah [n=cass@p54AB53A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting11:28
wwoodsbut anyway, if you encounter blockerworthy bugs11:29
jlaskaI suspect that one isn't power6 specific (coudl be wrong) ... possibly more yaboot network boot support11:29
jlaskaah ... scratch that ... /me reads initial comment indicating power5 works11:29
wwoods(http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria defines blockerworthy)11:29
wwoodsmake *dang* sure the bugs are filed11:30
wwoodsand that they block F10Beta11:30
jlaskawwoods: is that NFS iso install stuff being tracked on F10Beta?11:30
wwoodsdo you see it on the blocker list?11:30
jlaskaI did not ... does that mean it works now, or hasn't been filed?11:30
jwilliamanonymous ftp install seems messed up.11:30
wwoodsReleaseCriteria needs an update. sigh.11:30
wwoodsjlaska: probably the latter11:31
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wwoodsI thought there was a bug about it though11:31
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wwoodsbug 443291 is a nfsiso bug but it's closed rawhide11:32
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=443291 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list@redhat.com, CLOSED RAWHIDE, ISO image via NFS, got "Missing ISO 9660 image" and failed to install11:32
-!- clumens [n=chris@nat/redhat/x-6d120d9cc009bbb1] has joined #fedora-meeting11:32
wwoodsclumens: howdy11:32
wwoodsis there a current nfsiso bug filed?11:32
wwoodswe're doing a quick review of potential f10beta blockers11:33
clumenswhat's the specific problem?11:33
wwoodsjlaska: you wanna take that? 11:33
jlaskaI know you guys were working a few NFS ISO and HD ISO install issues lately, wasn't sure if that was tracked in a feature bz or needs still needs a bz11:33
clumensthere may very well be.  i'll look while you tell me what's up.11:33
wwoodsah so you're not specifically encountering a problem yourself, just making sure that we're tracking 'em11:34
wwoodswell that's part of the reason we built some iso images11:34
jlaskaEggsellent, sounds like your on it11:34
clumensnfsiso:  no i don't know of any specific bugs11:34
clumenshdiso:  yes, there are a handful11:35
* jwilliam has tried that method=nfsiso:server/path and and images/stage2.img and it still doesn't work, but thought that it was fixed in ananaconda, but would need some way to get new ananconda.11:35
clumensi think we need to release note a bunch of things around this, by the way11:35
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jlaskastickster: is there a template for folks to begin populating http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Beta/ReleaseNotes ?11:35
sticksterjlaska: Actually, you can use the Alpha relnotes as a starting point: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Alpha/ReleaseNotes11:36
zodbot<http://tinyurl.com/6dohdh> (at fedoraproject.org)11:36
sticksterSorry, should have been https://11:36
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jlaskastickster: any preference on carrying the same Alpha content forward ... or start fresh (but with same format)11:39
wwoodsjwilliam: I believe releng is working on getting rawhide out (I'm told there was a system crash last night)11:39
clumensjwb: gonna need some more details to know what's going on there11:40
clumenserr jwilliam: same comment.11:40
wwoodsonce we have some functioning iso images I'll retry hdiso11:40
sticksterjlaska: What I would suggest is that status changes on the Alpha notes should appear in the Beta. For instance, some of the Plymouth content still applies, but a few of the bullets may need revisiting to reflect the current status of the feature.11:41
wwoodsprobably I'll get someone else to do nfsiso, but yeah, it's contingent on having new images11:42
sticksterSince not everyone who tries the Beta necessarily tried the Alpha, nor read its release notes, they should stand on their own.11:42
wwoodsstickster: yeah, experience has shown us that a *lot* more people try the Beta11:42
sticksterThe blessing/curse of the terminology11:42
* jwilliam wonders about alpha 2 vs Beta11:43
wwoodsyeah, sometimes I think we oughtta shuffle things so that Beta happens post-featurefreeze11:43
wwoodsright - alpha 1, alpha 2 (feature freeze), beta, release11:43
wwoodsthat's a discussion for another day though11:44
jlaskastickster: thx11:44
poelcatfeature freeze: 2008-08-19; beta release: 2008-09-0211:44
wwoodspoelcat: feature freeze == beta freeze11:44
wwoodswe invariably have features that are untestable or just plain missing 11:44
wwoodsfor Beta11:44
poelcatwhich means they should be dropped from the release11:45
poelcatand queued for the next release11:45
wwoodsthat is also an acceptable solution11:45
wwoodsbut that's never what happens11:45
wwoodsso let's try to push FESCo to be more aggressive about dropping late features11:46
wwoodsand if that doesn't work we'll discuss renaming the releases11:46
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wwoodseither way, Beta should have every feature present and testable11:46
wwoodsthe rawhide-based pungi spin I'm using seems to work OK, so I'm gonna retest a few things (nfsiso/hdiso/ks on hd/etc)11:48
wwoodsalso need to do some dev work on getting preupgrade code testable11:48
wwoodsanything else we should talk about here11:49
wwoodspotential beta blockers, problems with release criteria, test plans, whatever11:49
wwoodsoh, another tangential thing I want for future Betas: new artwork11:50
* jwilliam wonders about startup and posibility of starting things in background.11:50
wwoodsjwilliam: startup of.. what11:50
wwoodssystem startup?11:50
jwilliamrc stuff11:50
jwilliamlike cups11:50
wwoodsthat's an enormously complex topic11:50
wwoodsand not really QA-oriented11:50
jlaskaFYI ... tomorrow we'll be hosting a Fedora Test Day with focus on encrypted installs and plymouth (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2008-August/msg00220.html).  Any and all are welcome to join and help bang on the bits11:50
zodbot<http://tinyurl.com/6cyn6m> (at www.redhat.com)11:50
wwoodsjwilliam: but check out http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/30SecondStartup11:50
* jwilliam was looking at that, that is why the question11:51
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wwoodsand keep in mind that we're using Upstart now, and it's just hit 0.5.0, which could let us do some significant rewriting of the rc process for F1111:51
wwoodswaaaayyyy too late for F10 though11:51
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wwoodsany other QA stuff, or should us east-coasters break for lunch 11:52
* jwilliam was also wondering about way to tie qa test to bugzilla.11:53
poelcatwwoods: if you encounter features that are not testable or present in the beta... please bring to my attention11:53
poelcatthey will be dropped as we have in the past11:53
wwoodspoelcat: will do11:53
jlaskacome one, come all ... Fedora Test Day tomorrow :)11:54
wwoodswhee fun!11:55
wwoodsas I understand it we might actually have modesetting now?11:55
wwoodsso testing plymouth is very timely?11:55
wwoodswe'll see, I guess11:56
jlaskayeah possibly, and if not ... there'll be plenty to poke at11:56
wwoodsokay, meeting time over11:56
wwoodslunch for me, and then we will poke through feature test plans11:56
wwoodsthanks for your time and help, folks11:57
--- Log closed Wed Aug 13 11:57:14 2008

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