--- Log opened Wed Oct 22 11:03:43 2008
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA11:05
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init11:05
wwoodswhee, hi11:05
wwoodsjlaska, poelcat, jds2001, f13: ping11:05
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wwoodsso. QA! whee!11:09
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wwoodsthe freeze for F10PR is tuesday11:09
wwoodswe should start pinging bug owners / reporters about potential blockers now11:09
wwoodsthat's the F10PR tracker bug11:09
wwoodsand we'll have our weekly snapshot to test with, too11:10
wwoodsf13: any obvious issues standing in the way of this week's snapshot?11:10
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F10Beta, Snap311:10
wwoodsI guess we're having some repodiff / createrepo problems with rawhide?11:10
skvidalnot last night11:11
f13today's delay is purely me forgetting to clean up after myself.11:11
f13once today's compose is done, I'm going to attempt making snapshot3 iamges11:11
f13poelcat dumped a /ton/ of bugs on the various trackers this week :/11:12
wwoodsmost of it was s-c-XXX needs usermode-gtk11:12
wwoodsthere's 9 of those on there - they're closing fairly quickly11:12
wwoodsthere's actually a tracker bug for *those*11:13
wwoodsso I don't know why they're also on F10PR11:13
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wwoodsthere's also bug 46788611:13
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=467886 high, high, ---, berrange@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, virt-manager depends on dbus-x1111:13
wwoodsanother "missing Requires:" bug11:13
wwoodsthose are easy fixes11:13
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wwoodsthat leaves us with 15 bugs on the list11:14
wwoods2 NM, 1 RPM packaging problem (in progress), a suspend/resume bug that just needs a quirk, various video hardware bogons11:15
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wwoodsis there anything huge that's missing from the list?11:16
wwoodsit seems like there's daily messages about keyboard layout selection being broken on -test-list11:16
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wwoodsf13: you filed 463861 - was that text-mode only?11:17
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wwoodsf13: AttributeError: NetworkConfiguratorText instance has no attribute 'network'.11:17
wwoodsyeah, that's obviously textmode11:17
wwoodsI'll retest with yesterday's rawhide and confirm that's fixed11:18
f13I haven't gone through the trackers recently, I've been far too focused elsewhere11:18
wwoodsbah, bug 467904 - nvidia dmraid, I hate you11:19
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=467904 high, medium, ---, anaconda-maint-list@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Anaconda doesn't find the dmraid array while dmraid outside anaconda can see it and create the nodes11:19
wwoodsanyway the only real obvious problems that are missing from this list are: pulseaudio crashiness11:20
wwoodsand keyboard layout bogosity11:20
wwoodsI'll see if I can track those down and get 'em on the list11:20
wwoodsand bother the assignees / reporters for fixes and testing *before* the freeze11:21
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wwoodsanyone else have candidates for the list?11:21
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wwoodsI'll take that as a no11:22
wwoodsAnything else we should discuss? The next week is mostly for cleaning up the tracker in preparation for F10Pr11:23
f13I don't have much other than snap3 candidates are going to be landing late for you guys on the east coast11:23
f13they'll be in the typical locations, alt.11:24
wwoodsyou planning on doing that today?11:24
f13I should pre-stage those with content from yesterday's rawhide11:24
f13wwoods: yeah, but my "today" runs a bit longer than yours11:24
f13I may actually take some time off during the day so that I can work longer once rawhide is done composing.11:24
wwoodsthat's reasonable11:24
wwoodswell, I've been starting my days early lately (they're re-piping my house and the workers start at 8am)11:25
wwoodsso if snap3 lands late tonight I'll just start on it early tomorrow11:25
* f13 avoids the obvious jokes.11:25
wwoodsoh also my mac mini hard drive died, so my only KVM-capable machine is dead11:25
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wwoods(along with all my music, boo)11:25
f13oh sad.11:26
wwoodsso I'm gonna need some assistance on getting virt testing done11:26
wwoodsand I'm gonna need to bother management about getting a new workstation with VMX bits11:26
f13wwoods: I've got multiple systems capable of virt, both intel and amd, so I'll be doing some of those testing.11:26
wwoodsprobably should get a whole mess of blank CDs and DVDs and a new laptop and some other junk while I'm at it11:27
f13wwoods: chase up the software dev box route, intel/amd.  If you can't get a new one, yo ushould be able to get one that is cycled out of a dev's cube, one rev older or something.11:27
wwoodsoh true11:27
f13that's how I got my systems11:27
wwoodsand maybe I can find something with KMS-capable radeon11:27
wwoodsI'll do some scrounging.11:27
wwoodsanyway, unless there's other concerns about the snapshot / preview release11:28
wwoodswe should just get down to business11:29
f13sounds good to me.11:29
wwoodsalrighty then11:32
wwoodsthanks for yer time!11:32
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-!- bpepple_ changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FESCo meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process12:55
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bpepple_FESCo meeting ping -- bpepple, dgilmore, dwmw2, jwb, notting, nirik, kick_, jds2001, j-rod12:59
bpepple_Hi everybody; who's around?12:59
* notting is here13:00
* Kick_ is here13:00
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* j-rod here, mostly13:01
* bpepple_ waits another minute or so to see who else shows up.13:01
bpepple_ok, we can probably get started.13:03
-!- bpepple_ changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FESCo-Meeting -- sponsor nominations -- Andreas Thienemann (ixs)13:03
bpepple_First up, we've got a request to make ixs a sponsor.13:03
bpepple_nirik gave a +1 to the nomination on the mailing list.13:03
Kick_+1 from me as well13:04
bpepple_+1 to ixs13:04
j-rodI share a tiny bit of ralf's concern over occasional slow response, but I completely understand the lack of free time thing13:05
ubertibbsFor the record, I recall significant problems ages ago (not dealing with failed rebuilds, not responding to review tickets, etc.) a couple of years ago but I have no experience with his more recent activities.13:05
j-rodand he was quite reasonable with some bacula stuff I worked w/him on13:05
j-rodso +1 from me too13:05
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bpepple_ok, I see five '+1' to ixs's request, so it's been approved.13:06
j-rodplenty knowledgeable and careful wrt upgrading the bacula bits in a way that didn't destroy people's working setups and whatnot13:06
nottingdelayed +1 from me13:07
bpepple_anything else folks want to add in regard to ixs?  otherwise we can move on.13:07
-!- bpepple_ changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FESCo-Meeting -- adjusting post-beta snapshots - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg01994.html - all13:08
dwmw2whatever releng want13:08
bpepple_+1 from nirik on the mailing list.13:08
j-rod"nod of approval"13:08
bpepple_ok, I see six '+1', and no objections, so we've approved the rel-eng request.13:10
bpepple_moving on......13:10
* jwb ishere13:10
-!- bpepple_ changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FESCo-Meeting -- Features - Sbin Sanity - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg00337.html - ville13:10
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bpepple_ok, Ville wanted us to discuss reverting this feature.13:11
dwmw2What was the 'better way' and why do we need it?13:11
dwmw2is the only real objection just the 'tab completion finds more stuff' ?13:12
* j-rod happy with the way things are now, always used to manually make things that way anyhow13:12
bpepple_dwmw2: correct.13:12
dwmw2I find that objection a little spurious13:12
dwmw2I've _always_ had to add /sbin to my path manually and it's been a pain in the arse. I'm all for the existing change.13:13
j-rodlikewise. let it be.13:13
dwmw2jwb: apparently fir<TAB> no longer gives you firefox if you add /sbin ot the path13:13
dwmw2this makes kittens die13:14
jwbi was confused by your choice of 'spurious' as a description, but whatever :)13:14
dwmw2yeah. My grasp of the language is poor at times13:14
bpepple_fyi, in case anyone hasn't checked their e-mail in the last half-hour, ville had this comment in regard to nirik's comment: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-October/msg02180.html13:15
dwmw2yeah, he does have a point, kind of, about being hard to revert. Although not a great one.13:15
dwmw2but are we really going to come up with a better answer?13:15
bpepple_dwmw2: ville did say that Matt Miller and him were working on doing it the 'correct' way.13:16
dwmw2I saw in a package review last week that someone was trying to put nothing in /usr/bin, and use bash 'module' stuff instead. I'd never seen that before... and maybe it can handle sbin too?13:16
jwbwhat is the 'correct' way?13:16
dwmw2bpepple_: he did, but I don't.... indeed, jwb.13:16
* dgilmore is kinda here. in other meeting also 13:17
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Kick_jwb:  fix sudo to include sbin, p.e.13:18
dwmw2that's 2/3 of bugger all use.13:18
dwmw2we want it for non-root users too13:18
dwmw2-1 to the proposal to revert SbinSanity.13:18
j-rod-1 for revert13:19
bpepple_-1 to revert from nirik on the mailing list.13:19
Kick_+1 from me as I still don't want to have sbin in my normal users path13:19
j-rodI like 'ip a s' to Just Work13:19
jwbi don't care either way and i think it's making a mountain out of a molehill13:19
bpepple_-1 to revert.13:20
bpepple_notting, dgilmore: ?13:21
notting-1 to revert13:21
dgilmore-1 to revert13:21
dwmw2If they want to come to us _quickly_ (i.e. next week) with a concrete, ready-to-ship alternative, then we can consider it. Although I don't hold out much hope for such an alternative13:21
bpepple_I see six '-1', one '-1', and one '0' to reverting the sbin sanity feature.13:22
dwmw2since I think the objection is to the principle, not the implementation.13:22
Kick_one +113:22
bpepple_Kick_: correct, typo on my part.13:22
dgilmoreif there was a concrete workable alternative  then i think we can consider it13:22
bpepple_anyone have anything else to add? Or should we move on?13:23
dwmw2doing it in interactive shells but not non-interactive might address the concern about scripts. But is probably worse than the original problem it tries to fix13:23
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bpepple_ok, moving on.....13:24
-!- bpepple_ changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FESCo-Meeting -- Features - all13:25
bpepple_poelcat: did the art team pull the echo icon feature?13:25
jwbmizmo said it was not ready13:25
bpepple_jwb: I thought I saw something about it, but wasn't 100% sure.13:25
poelcatbpepple_: i haven't heard/seen anything about the page13:25
nottingit was reverted as the default icon set in fedora-icon-theme yesterday/today13:26
poelcatthough i'm behind on email13:26
bpepple_notting: ok, thanks.13:26
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bpepple_poelcat: anything else in regard to features we need to discuss today? I know next week is a deadline for a couple of features.13:26
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poelcatbpepple_: i'd like to get started on F11 feature process review as time permits13:27
poelcati'll send out mail13:27
bpepple_poelcat: sounds good to me.13:28
bpepple_ok, if there is nothing else we can move on.13:29
-!- bpepple_ changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FESCo-Meeting -- comps - j-rod, nirik13:29
bpepple_j-rod: any progress on the comps guidelines?13:29
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j-rodI suck, two weeks in a row13:30
* jds2001 wanders in late13:30
bpepple_j-rod: no worries, just wanted to touch base with you.13:30
* bpepple_ remembers that jds2001 was going to work on it, not nirik.13:30
bpepple_anyway, that's all I had on the schedule for today.13:31
-!- bpepple_ changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FESCo meeting -- Free discussion around Fedora13:31
jds2001yeah, I suck too, and the topic just came up yesterday13:31
dwmw2I suck, because I didn't review a package yet this week13:31
jds2001which reminded me of it being on my pile o' doom13:31
dwmw2and I can't even find the damn list to pick from, either :)13:31
wwoodssince we're on the subject of comps guidelines - I committed a relax-ng schema for comps a while back13:31
bpepple_dwmw2: I didn't either, though I did manage to schedule a meeting for the package review sig.13:31
* Kick_ got one of his own packages reviewed, does that count ?13:31
dwmw2should we put review bugs into NEEDINFO when we're waiting for the packager to fix something?13:32
wwoodsit'd make me very happy if comps changes were validated before checkin13:32
jds2001dwmw2: yeah, sounds sane13:32
bpepple_wwoods: yeah, that would be nice.13:32
nottingwwoods: ugh, effort on the cvs side13:32
* dwmw2 does that to the first three reviews bugs he looked at with a view to helping with :)13:32
dwmw2what's the search we use for review bugs which need input?13:32
wwoodsyeah, cvs effort = boo13:33
wwoodswhich is why I'm merely making the suggestion rather than demanding it (and thus volunteering to write the cvs bits)13:33
nottingopen bugs for component "Package Review"?13:34
* bpepple_ sees ubertibbs beat him to the link.13:34
* dwmw2 was looking for review keyword or flag or something13:34
dwmw2übertibbs, please.13:34
dwmw2even though IRC can't handle it :)13:34
* jds2001 demands UTF-8 IRC :)13:35
Kick_looks ok here13:35
dwmw2er, do @redhat.com folks need sponsorship?13:35
jwbircd doesn't allow UTF-8 in nicks13:35
jwbdwmw2, yes13:35
bpepple_dwmw2: yeah.13:35
ubertibbsEveryone needs sponsorship.13:36
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ubertibbsI wouldn't generally put review tickets into needinfo immediately.13:36
ubertibbsAt least now that its a flag, though, it won't make the tickets drop out of many searches so it shouldn't hurt anything.13:37
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bpepple_anyone have anything else they wish to discuss, otherwise we can wrap up for this week.13:38
Kick_bpepple_:  there were two issues at yesterdays FPC meeting which seem to need FESCo ratification according to the meeting summary13:38
* dwmw2 refines search.... component=Package Review and description does not contain 'Merge Review' and needinfo flag not set and fedora-review flag not set either 13:38
Kick_but we can do that next week13:38
bpepple_Kick_: do you have a link?13:38
Kick_bpepple_:  only the mail on f-devel 'Summary of the 2008-10-21 Packaging'13:38
ubertibbsHonestly those two guideline tweaks were probably in the "just do small things that make sense" category.13:39
ubertibbsTweaks for eclipse plugins to accommodate changes in Eclipse 3.4 and a the removal of some confusing language in the desktop file guidelines13:39
bpepple_ubertibbs: thanks.  I thought we had changed that vendor thing awhile back.13:40
ubertibbswhich made folks think that --fendor=fedora was required in many cases.13:40
ubertibbsYeah, we should have but things got held up while mclasen figures out what breaks when we remove it.13:40
bpepple_ubertibbs: ah, thanks.13:40
ubertibbsspot just wrote around that delay by specifying that existing packages shouldn't change.13:41
bpepple_anyone have any objections to the guideline changes proposed by FPC?13:41
Kick_no, looks sane13:41
jds2001+1 here13:42
bpepple_ubertibbs: I don't see any objections so consider them approved.13:42
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bpepple_ok, if there is nothing else, I'll start the meeting end countdown.13:43
* bpepple_ will end the meeting in 6013:43
* bpepple_ will end the meeting in 30 13:43
* bpepple_ will end the meeting in 1513:43
bpepple_-- MARK -- Meeting End13:44
bpepple_Thanks, everyone!13:44
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quaidI'm going to take a second to go back and make sure I've read all the email about relnotes and translation15:02
* ke4qqq is here15:03
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-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: relnotes translations problems15:05
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quaidwho is here that can help with this problem?15:06
quaidpart of it is that I don't know clearly what we are to do; so figuring out what to do is first.15:06
quaidthen doing it.15:06
* ke4qqq admits not reading all of the tx emails - what's the problem? 15:07
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quaid1. people need fedora-doc-utils to build documents; they also need to get some files translated and in to that repo15:07
quaidif every translator was a git user, that would be less of a problem.15:07
quaidso we discussed porting the changes from f-d-u to the docs-common module in CVS15:08
quaidso people can translate the common files and upload them15:08
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quaid2. adding new languages -- solved since people can submit changes to LINGUAS file via transifex15:09
quaidbut they also need specific files in docs-common (fedora-doc-utils)15:09
quaidwe could make dummy files for everyone so the build doesn't break15:10
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quaidand they could translate the dummy files and email them to the list, for example.15:10
quaidthen we put them in git and move on15:10
quaidthe alternative is back up to the docs-common in cvs -- port changes, etc.15:10
ke4qqqhaving a third entity pushing to git seems easiest in my mind - but that doesn't mean anytihng15:11
quaidok, so that solution would look like this:15:12
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quaid1. create dummy files (english content) for each language in po/15:12
quaid2. commit those to fedora-doc-utils15:12
quaid3. fix the Trans Quickstart guide (TQSG) to tell people to:15:12
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quaid- git clone ... to get the relnotes15:13
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quaid- git clone ... to get the fedora-doc-utils15:13
quaid- make sure their language file is there; if not copy the english files to their language file15:13
quaid-- this way the tools will build, able to find the XML it expects15:14
quaid4. each translator who had to create or translate the common files needs to submit the file to the team via Trac15:14
quaid5. we review and submit those files to git15:14
quaidthe translator can work locally because they have the files, and it will build globally once their common files are there.15:15
quaid6. submit translations and update LINGUAS file via Tx15:15
ke4qqqif we create dummy files what does that do for us if they aren't 100% done?15:17
quaidin some cases they cannot really be translated; they are legal files, etc.15:17
quaidif they are untranslated, that doesn't break anything.15:17
quaidthey just have to be there15:17
quaidthis basically means we have to have a Docs intervention to add each language; a PITA but doable.15:18
ke4qqqseems like less trouble than teaching people git on the timetable we have15:19
quaidalso, we don't want to add everyone as a committer, etc.15:19
ke4qqqif there are multipler people working on a singular translation you'd really need to be comfortable with branching and merging15:21
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quaidI don't know if there are problems with that plan, but it seems to fit15:22
* ke4qqq admits he knows nothing15:22
ke4qqqso there could be lots of holes in the plan that I have no ability to see15:23
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quaidI'll email it to the list and see where we go from there15:23
quaidwhen jsmith-teaching is available later, I'll see if he can sanity check.15:24
quaidok, let's move on and see if there is anything else to discuss15:25
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: tasks15:25
quaidthe main timely item is the IG and being ready for jlaska to use it tomorrow15:26
* ke4qqq thought it was next week15:27
* jlaska is barely here ... and will be headed to a plane shortly15:27
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quaidjlaska: sorry, when you are doing Install testing with the IG?15:27
jlaskaTomorrow's Test Day was going to be an informal run through of the IG15:27
jlaskaI've been out of action yesterday/today so haven't yet been able to do much planning on that front15:28
quaidke4qqq: next week's deadline is about catcing the Preview15:28
ke4qqqahhhh ok15:28
jlaskabut if content is available for review tomorrow, we can provide a focused review of certain sub-sections15:28
jlaskaquaid: how we looking on content?15:28
ke4qqqwell we have some significant portions done, but at least 4-5 chapters still need to be looked at15:28
quaidare the changes in the XML and up in Jared's builds?15:29
ke4qqqto the best of my knowledge yes....15:29
ke4qqqusc guys are assigning to jsmith15:29
ke4qqqwhen they are done15:30
ke4qqqand he is committing15:30
ke4qqqto git15:30
ke4qqqand building at least twice per day15:30
quaidjlaska: not entirely complete, but probably enough to use15:30
quaidbeing our only chance, we should continue with it15:31
ke4qqqesp. the stuff that is already complete.15:31
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quaidjlaska: we can go at it again in early Nov., if anyone wants to; the content will be complete and in line for GA15:31
ke4qqqI'll try and communicate that urgency that things will be reviewed15:32
quaidok then15:32
ke4qqqand hopefully we'll get the majority of content in by tnoight15:32
quaidthat's what we'll as jsmith to focus on later today and tonight, then15:32
quaidanything more on thise?15:32
quaidwhat I'd like to do is close at this point, get the plans for relnote moved.15:33
jlaskaquaid: I'm out ... will sync up tomorrow15:34
quaidclosing in 515:34
quaidthanks all15:34
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