| f13 | wwoods: shit, I mmissed the meetin then? | 15:47 |
|---|---|---|
| wwoods | nah | 15:47 |
| wwoods | moved it to 11 Eastern / 8 Pacific / 1600UTC | 15:48 |
| wwoods | first order of business: decide whether to make the | 15:48 |
| follow-US-DST change permanent | ||
| wwoods | heh | 15:48 |
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| f13 | please? (: | 15:51 |
| f13 | although I was awake at 6:30am due to child-process | 15:52 |
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| wwoods | IIRC when we originally chose the meeting time we had | 16:00 |
| more people in central europe and nobody on the west coast | ||
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| has joined #fedora-meeting | ||
| * jds2001 votes to keep it this way | 16:03 | |
| jds2001 | IIRC, viking_ice is the only non-US participant now? | 16:03 |
| jds2001 | apologies if I've missed anyone else. | 16:03 |
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| viking_ice | Guess so for now if my master plan works than this | 16:05 |
| will be filled with participants in not so distant future... | ||
| -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk | 16:05 | |
| viking_ice | 16:00 UTC is fine by me if you want to change.. | 16:05 |
| wwoods | if it gets to be troublesome for .eu / APAC citizens, | 16:06 |
| I'd *love* to be forced to have multiple QA meetings | ||
| wwoods | heh | 16:06 |
| f13 | hehe | 16:06 |
| jds2001 | yeah, but it'd go back to 1700UTC in the summer :( | 16:06 |
| jds2001 | hehe | 16:06 |
| wwoods | jds2001: ITYM 1500 | 16:06 |
| jds2001 | yeah, brain not functioning this morning | 16:06 |
| wwoods | so the question is: lock to US Eastern time (1500UTC | 16:06 |
| summer, 1600 winter) | ||
| jds2001 | still too early after all the jubilation had last night :) | 16:07 |
| wwoods | or just move it to 1600UTC (11am EST, noon EDT) | 16:07 |
| wwoods | scheduling meetings over lunchtime is kinda cruel | 16:07 |
| wwoods | so I lean towards: 11am US Eastern | 16:08 |
| jds2001 | +1 | 16:09 |
| * jlaska acks | 16:09 | |
| * viking_ice neutral | 16:09 | |
| * leitz shows up if possible. :) | 16:10 | |
| * leitz eats lunch at 11 though... | 16:10 | |
| jds2001 | hmmm | 16:11 |
| f13 | wwoods: my Wed. is pretty open, so any time you pick as | 16:11 |
| long as it's no earlier than 8am Pacific is fine with me. | ||
| wwoods | let's say 11am US Eastern | 16:11 |
| wwoods | path of least resistance. okay then. | 16:11 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | 16:12 | |
| Meeting | F10Preview | ||
| wwoods | F10PR is out, yay | 16:12 |
| wwoods | which means all that remains for bug tracking is | 16:12 |
| F10Blocker / F10Target | ||
| wwoods | f13: when's the last day for package changes? I keep | 16:13 |
| guessing Nov. 16 but, y'know | ||
| -!- pingou_laptop [n=Pingou@fedora/pingou] has joined #fedora-meeting | 16:13 | |
| f13 | what's the release date again? | 16:13 |
| jds2001 | 11/25 | 16:13 |
| f13 | 16th sounds like a great cutoff day | 16:13 |
| f13 | 17th if your nasty | 16:14 |
| wwoods | let's say 16th | 16:14 |
| wwoods | if someone absolutely needs to get something in on the | 16:14 |
| 17th it's gonna earn a lot of scowls | ||
| jlaska | installation related results are looking fairly | 16:14 |
| positive ... while there are lots of medium severity bugs I'm finding | ||
| < jlaska> | 16:14 | |
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora10Install/Preview | ||
| jlaska | LUKS installs are under represented there. We've | 16:15 |
| talked in the past about refreshing that matrix, but I haven't had | ||
| time to organize my thoughts there | ||
| jlaska | if someone wants to help with that, I'd be happy to tag-team | 16:15 |
| wwoods | what're the most common cases? | 16:15 |
| wwoods | 1) default encrypted partitioning, 2) encrypted /home, | 16:16 |
| 3) upgrade from F9 with default enc. | ||
| wwoods | as long as those are represented I'd be happy | 16:17 |
| jlaska | what's killing us right now is the combinations ... | 16:17 |
| mixing raidX, lvm pvs, lvm lvs | ||
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| wwoods | wrt encryption or in general? | 16:18 |
| jlaska | encryption | 16:18 |
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| wwoods | gotcha. well, this is another case where we need test prorities | 16:19 |
| wwoods | not to get all philosophical and all but we need to | 16:19 |
| make sure we spend the most time testing stuff that people actually | ||
| use the most | ||
| * jds2001 thinks that all that mix+match stuff is low priority. | 16:20 | |
| leitz | Noob questions. What's LUKS, and are you planning on | 16:20 |
| default encryping the partition tables or data? | ||
| jlaska | no complaints here regarding prioritization | 16:20 |
| wwoods | (although you can argue that users of F10Preview test | 16:20 |
| all that by default) | ||
| wwoods | so it kind of means that if we don't test the corner | 16:20 |
| cases, nobody will | ||
| jlaska | leitz: | 16:20 |
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/EncryptedBlockDevices | ||
| * leitz clicks on link... | 16:21 | |
| jds2001 | and no encryption by default, but it's an easy check box. | 16:21 |
| wwoods | leitz: you can set it up either way, but the typical | 16:21 |
| setup is to leave the partition *table* unencrypted | ||
| wwoods | and have one encrypted partition that's used as the | 16:22 |
| block device for your LVM group, or /home, or whatever | ||
| jlaska | so I'd like to re-organize the encrypted test cases | 16:23 |
| (with noted prioritization in mind). I just haven't been able to yet. | ||
| If someone would like to help with that effort please throw something | ||
| my way :) | ||
| -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster | 16:23 | |
| wwoods | duly noted | 16:23 |
| wwoods | encrypted filesystems is definitely one of the things | 16:24 |
| we've been seeing a lot of bug reports on / hearing a lot of people | ||
| mention | ||
| wwoods | should also make sure any bugs regarding that get on | 16:25 |
| blocker or target | ||
| wwoods | I think it's also about time we start moving bugs from | 16:25 |
| F10Target to F11Blocker/Target | ||
| wwoods | stuff like bug 119697.. not gonna happen if it hasn't already | 16:25 |
| buggbot | Bug | 16:25 |
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=119697 medium, | ||
| medium, ---, twaugh@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, RFE: add a gendiff that | ||
| works | ||
| leitz | So you're fixing the *optional* ability to encrypt data | 16:26 |
| and partition information in Anaconda, via LUKS which has been | ||
| available since F5. | ||
| wwoods | leitz: yes | 16:27 |
| wwoods | in F9 it was added to the installer UI as a simple checkbox | 16:27 |
| wwoods | so a *lot* more people are using it now | 16:27 |
| leitz | Is it machine or arch dependant? Can I take a HD out of | 16:27 |
| an i386 box, install it in a ppc box, and read the data, assuming I | ||
| have the password? | ||
| pjones | leitz: should work, yes. | 16:27 |
| leitz | Cool. Edge case but common in large enterprises. Our | 16:28 |
| machines choke and we move data via hard disk. | ||
| f13 | gah, sorry I was distracted. | 16:28 |
| wwoods | so we need to ensure that it works as expected, | 16:28 |
| *especially* during upgrades. | ||
| f13 | jds2001: mdraid + encryption isn't that far fetched | 16:29 |
| wwoods | which reminds me.. we should add some upgrade cases | 16:29 |
| jlaska | it isn't, but there are limitations around mirror iirc | 16:29 |
| f13 | mdraid + lvm + encryption is going overboard, but not by | 16:29 |
| much given we don't have a good story for partitioning md arrays | ||
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| connection] | ||
| leitz | If you install a new version of the OS, can it wipe the | 16:30 |
| HD if the partition tables and data are encrypted and you don't know | ||
| the password? | ||
| wwoods | leitz: of course | 16:30 |
| wwoods | but this isn't really the time to discuss LUKS | 16:31 |
| wwoods | getting back to installation test planning for f10 final | 16:31 |
| jlaska | leitz: this is a prime example of a feature needing | 16:31 |
| more concrete use cases ... that might work well to combine our | ||
| efforts to get a more suitable matrix in place | ||
| f13 | leitz: yes, we're quite good at destroying the data on | 16:31 |
| your disk, regardless of how it's protected. | ||
| wwoods | - clean up LUKS cases | 16:31 |
| wwoods | - add Upgrade cases | 16:31 |
| f13 | about the only thing you can do to protect your disk from | 16:31 |
| anaconda's ability to wipe it is to use the secure disk stuff that say | ||
| xboxs use on the partition tables. | ||
| wwoods | anything else that's missing, or been obsoleted and | 16:32 |
| should be removed, etc. | ||
| f13 | I don't even recall the right terminology for that, | 16:32 |
| perhaps pjones does. | ||
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| pjones | I don't know what xbox does. | 16:33 |
| f13 | well, it uses some standard that is supported by the | 16:33 |
| harddrives or whatnot. | ||
| f13 | you have to have a key in order to 'unlock' the | 16:33 |
| partitions to do anything with them. | ||
| wwoods | evil? is it evil? | 16:33 |
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| jds2001 | yes, i think that's what it's called :) | 16:33 |
| pjones | ATA certainly includes the ability to lock disks with a key | 16:34 |
| pjones | It's not encryption, but it is access control. I'm | 16:34 |
| not familiar with all of the implementation details. | ||
| f13 | ah. | 16:35 |
| f13 | that's likely it | 16:35 |
| wwoods | weird stuff | 16:35 |
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| f13 | nasty, because it's rather difficult to recover th ekey | 16:36 |
| if your xbox is toast | ||
| f13 | OFF TOPIC | 16:36 |
| wwoods | so, anyway, f10blocker: | 16:36 |
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=438943&hide_resolved=1 | ||
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| f13 | woo blockers! | 16:36 |
| wwoods | take a quick scan and tell me if anything we know | 16:36 |
| about isn't there | ||
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| wwoods | (anything that should be blocker-worthy, anyway) | 16:36 |
| wwoods | we're still getting "sound doesn't work" reports | 16:36 |
| wwoods | also "radeon is wonky", which is apparently (somewhat) | 16:37 |
| fixed in kernel -69 | ||
| wwoods | but -68 was in preview so... that's gonna be tricky | 16:37 |
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| wwoods | once we have a kernel tagged and new rawhide boot.isos | 16:38 |
| we can ask people to retest | ||
| jlaska | we are planning on pulling in a kernel >= -68 ? | 16:38 |
| jlaska | sorry, I mean -76 | 16:38 |
| * jlaska and jwb looking at a ppc blocker | 16:39 | |
| jlaska | * Mon Nov 03 2008 Eric Paris <eparis@redhat.com> 2.6.27.4-76 | 16:39 |
| jlaska | - Fix selinux oops on ppc64 due to empty tty_files | 16:39 |
| list (#469079) | ||
| wwoods | there's also -79 now | 16:39 |
| jlaska | right | 16:39 |
| -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk | 16:39 | |
| jlaska | just dbl checking ... so the latest would get pulled | 16:39 |
| into a future compose? | ||
| wwoods | ooh, and in theory -72 should fix a lot of x86_64-intel-slowness | 16:39 |
| wwoods | not unless we tag one | 16:39 |
| -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster | 16:40 | |
| wwoods | dunno if we're waiting for something specific before tagging | 16:40 |
| wwoods | f13? | 16:40 |
| * jlaska adds ppc blocker to the F10Blocker list | 16:40 | |
| * leitz wonders how many ppc users there actually are? | 16:41 | |
| f13 | there are a bunch of releng tickets I haven't looked at | 16:41 |
| this morning | ||
| f13 | since meeting was the first thing. | 16:41 |
| f13 | leitz: a number. | 16:41 |
| leitz | Mac or IBM server? | 16:41 |
| jds2001 | leitz: we always make jokes about our 8 ppc users. | 16:41 |
| But there really are a lot. | ||
| wwoods | probably split fairly evenly between the two | 16:42 |
| jds2001 | and PS3 | 16:42 |
| wwoods | "a lot" meaning, like, 40 | 16:42 |
| wwoods | instead of 8 | 16:42 |
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| jds2001 | 2769 according to smolt, which would be a low number | 16:43 |
| wwoods | okay, I'm exaggerating, but it's still 0.7% | 16:43 |
| jds2001 | indeed :) | 16:43 |
| leitz | Is there a use case for the ~20 IBM server folks, and | 16:43 |
| do the 40 ppc users contribute back to the development effort? | ||
| jds2001 | yes, they do. | 16:44 |
| leitz | That is, are you working hard for a hard working | 16:44 |
| segment of the community? | ||
| wwoods | well that's the thing - because there are so few PPC | 16:44 |
| users, the contribution-per-user ratio is *enormous* by comparison | ||
| f13 | well. | 16:44 |
| f13 | the problem with things like statistics is that they are | 16:45 |
| self selecting | ||
| wwoods | most of the known PPC users are either kernel devs, | 16:45 |
| work on core fedora packages, or both | ||
| drago01 | ps3 | 16:45 |
| f13 | there are large swaths of folks within IBM using/working | 16:45 |
| on it, but they won't get reported in anything like smolt or our | ||
| download numbers | ||
| f13 | but ppc does get the least amount of visible testing | 16:46 |
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| leitz | Let me restate the question another way. The Alpha chip | 16:46 |
| was awesome and is missed. The x86_64 chip is cussed but used. Is the | ||
| ppc more an Alpha or a x86_64? | ||
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| f13 | does it matter for the sake of the meeting? | 16:46 |
| leitz | Do you need to spend cycles on ppc show-stoppers for the 25th? | 16:47 |
| wwoods | it's more the weirdo arch that we keep around not | 16:47 |
| because we love it so much | ||
| wwoods | but because the people who bother to work on it are | 16:47 |
| extremely talented (or lucky) | ||
| wwoods | and everything seems to get fixed pretty quickly | 16:47 |
| wwoods | it's been a long time since we had anything held back | 16:47 |
| by ppc-only bugs | ||
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| f13 | wwoods: where "long time" is one release | 16:48 |
| jds2001 | anyhow, onward to things that are actually on-topic | 16:48 |
| for our remaining 12 minutes :) | ||
| wwoods | practically forever | 16:48 |
| wwoods | in Fedora terms | 16:48 |
| f13 | leitz: yes, for better or worse, ppc is a primary arch. | 16:48 |
| If there are ppc blockers, they block. | ||
| f13 | wwoods: I'm pretty certain just last release we had a | 16:49 |
| late rebuild a bunch of ppc stuff due to selinux | ||
| wwoods | it limps along because nobody can make the argument | 16:49 |
| that it's too broken to maintain it further | ||
| wwoods | because it's never *quite* that broken | 16:49 |
| f13 | and more recently we had broken ppc due to selinux. | 16:49 |
| leitz | f13: you guys work hard, I'll accept your priorities. ;) | 16:49 |
| f13 | as in, like the package that fixes it just went in | 16:49 |
| yesterday or today | ||
| f13 | (kernel I do believe) | 16:49 |
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| leitz | jlaska, you have the updates to the matrix. Are the | 16:50 |
| updates just not typed in or not tested/done? | ||
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| * leitz 's wife is out of town this weekend; may have some time to give. | 16:51 | |
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| wwoods | so anyway, f13, is there anything we're specifically | 16:51 |
| waiting for to tag a new kernel? | ||
| wwoods | other than, y'know, a request from the kernel devs | 16:51 |
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| f13 | wwoods: that's all I'm aware of. | 16:52 |
| f13 | (waiting for a request, or the last voting on it) | 16:53 |
| f13 | I don't see a current request for one | 16:53 |
| f13 | although davej has super tagging powers, he may have snuck one in | 16:53 |
| wwoods | I'll probably ping 'em and see what's up | 16:53 |
| wwoods | this is probably a question for the Desktop team, but | 16:54 |
| poelcat brought it up before | ||
| wwoods | do we consider "audio glitchy/broken on a large set of | 16:54 |
| machines" blocker-worthy? | ||
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| wwoods | or poor 3d performance? | 16:54 |
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| f13 | wwoods: I'd require input from teh package owners really | 16:55 |
| wwoods | these are examples of things that don't *break* the | 16:55 |
| system, but would earn us some terrible press | ||
| f13 | yeah, but if they come back with "It'd be another 4 weeks | 16:56 |
| before we can fix that" then I'm less inclined to call it a "blocker" | ||
| wwoods | right | 16:56 |
| wwoods | so as usual: "it depends" is the answer | 16:56 |
| wwoods | but probably it's more like a Target than a Blocker | 16:56 |
| wwoods | i.e. if the fix is clean and lands on-time, we'd take it | 16:56 |
| f13 | yep | 16:57 |
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| wwoods | any objections? | 16:57 |
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| wwoods | right then | 16:58 |
| -!- DemonJester_away is now known as DemonJester | 16:58 | |
| wwoods | summarizing: | 16:58 |
| wwoods | ACTION: review and improve Encryption (LUKS) test | 16:59 |
| cases (jlaska et. al.) | ||
| wwoods | ACTION: review and improve Upgrade test cases (wwoods et. al.) | 16:59 |
| stickster | wwoods: f13: wrt glitchy audio... | 16:59 |
| stickster | isn't "Glitch Free Audio" on our feature list? | 16:59 |
| f13 | stickster: "glitch" is such a terrible term | 16:59 |
| wwoods | POLICY: Non-fatal but ugly problems (glitchy audio, | 17:00 |
| poor 3d performance) are Target, not Blocker | ||
| f13 | stickster: the "glitch" referred to in the feature I | 17:00 |
| think is not the same "glitch" that people are talking about | ||
| wwoods | yeah the term "Glitch-Free Audio" doesn't mean what | 17:00 |
| you think it means | ||
| stickster | wwoods: heh. You wouldn't happen to have a bug | 17:00 |
| handy, would you? I admit I haven't seen the particular reports | ||
| (droids) in question | ||
| wwoods | it specifically means the newer PulseAudio design for | 17:01 |
| using system timers rather than sound-card IRQs to schedule audio | ||
| buffering etc. | ||
| wwoods | "timer-based audio scheduling" is a more accurate term | 17:01 |
| leitz | wwoods, an e-mail going out with the Action items? I'll | 17:01 |
| have to print it as my laptop is my test case. :) | ||
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| wwoods | see http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/pulse-glitch-free.html | 17:02 |
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| wwoods | aw crud! I fatfingered the log command and failed to | 17:03 |
| log this meeting | ||
| wwoods | anyone else logging? | 17:03 |
| jds2001 | as always, I am :) | 17:03 |
| jds2001 | I'll email ya the log | 17:03 |
| wwoods | jds2001: many thanks | 17:03 |
| wwoods | ahem. continuing the summary: | 17:03 |
| wwoods | ACTION: begin moving unlikely F10Targets to F11Target | 17:04 |
| (or F11Blocker if appropriate) | ||
| wwoods | anything else I should mention here? | 17:04 |
| f13 | I can't think of much | 17:04 |
| f13 | I'm working on the "phantom" groups issue today | 17:05 |
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| wwoods | ah yes | 17:05 |
| f13 | where things are showing up as available to install, but | 17:05 |
| only have one member or so. Basically it's going to be some comps | ||
| juggling and perhaps some exclusion of packages in the | ||
| fedora-install-fedora.ks | ||
| wwoods | oh, bpepple was asking me about reverting Empathy in | 17:06 |
| favor of Pidgin yesterday | ||
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| #fedora-meeting | ||
| wwoods | the (imaginary) spec we've been testing is, basically, | 17:07 |
| "Does Empathy work as it's supposed to" | ||
| f13 | WOOO We're down to minimal being single CD again, eveon on x8^-64 | 17:07 |
| f13 | er x86_64 | 17:07 |
| wwoods | not "Does Empathy meet these actual requirements for | 17:07 |
| our IM client" | ||
| wwoods | therefore, Empathy meets spec and I don't really have | 17:07 |
| any recommendation there | ||
| f13 | yeah, rather late in the game to switch, but... | 17:08 |
| viking_ice | I says it's not ready next release or shipped them both.. | 17:08 |
| wwoods | therefore: I think the Feature process may need some | 17:08 |
| guidance on writing specs/test plans | ||
| wwoods | (further guidance) | 17:08 |
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| f13 | I think pidgin has been pretty well tested | 17:08 |
| wwoods | if the plan said: empathy has to do all these things | 17:08 |
| viking_ice | I was talking about empathy | 17:08 |
| wwoods | and it didn't | 17:08 |
| f13 | so a fallback to pidgin isn't terrible. | 17:08 |
| wwoods | then it'd be pretty clear | 17:08 |
| wwoods | but it doesn't. the test plan says, basically: empathy | 17:08 |
| has to work. | ||
| wwoods | well, it does. | 17:08 |
| f13 | from a QA perspective, I wouldn't have a problem | 17:09 |
| approving such a fallback if the feature owner is requesting it. | ||
| viking_ice | Strongly say it's not ready nor should we approach | 17:10 |
| this like this ship them both or just pidgin. | ||
| jds2001 | i think both get shipped regardless. | 17:10 |
| jds2001 | just which is default is in question. | 17:10 |
| wwoods | yeah, Empathy is part of GNOME 2.24 | 17:10 |
| f13 | I have a qustion. | 17:11 |
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| viking_ice | I'm saying both are installed with the default.. | 17:11 |
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| wwoods | f13: shoot | 17:11 |
| f13 | was the feature owner asking to revert the feature, or is | 17:11 |
| there a witch hunt about to force the issue? | ||
| viking_ice | so far empathy is.. | 17:11 |
| wwoods | IIRC bpepple is the empathy/telepathy maintainer | 17:11 |
| f13 | IE was QA asked if they would accept a revert, or was QA | 17:11 |
| asked if we would force a revert? | ||
| wwoods | the former | 17:12 |
| jds2001 | f13: bpepple and I were talking about this at OLF a | 17:12 |
| few weeks back. | ||
| f13 | ok. | 17:12 |
| jds2001 | he really didn't think it'd be ready | 17:12 |
| f13 | then we shouldn't really be discussing how well empathy | 17:12 |
| works, or whether it passed it's QA marks | ||
| wwoods | it works fine for simple things but doesn't support | 17:12 |
| stuff like.. file transfers | ||
| f13 | we should be talking about whether we'd accept a default | 17:12 |
| change at this point to go back to pidgin. | ||
| wwoods | but that's specifically what he asked: what QA thought | 17:12 |
| of Empathy as the default | ||
| f13 | ah. | 17:12 |
| wwoods | and my response was: the plan says use it as the | 17:13 |
| default and make sure it works. It works as expected. | ||
| f13 | that's different than asking us if we'd accept a revert. | 17:13 |
| viking_ice | qouting himself "<bpepple|lt> allquixotic: I | 17:13 |
| actually use Empathy (and maintain the telepathy stack in Fedora), and | ||
| I don't really think it's ready ye" | ||
| wwoods | bpepple: ping? | 17:13 |
| bpepple | wwoods: I was going to talk about the feature process | 17:13 |
| in the fesco meeting later if you want to attend. | ||
| wwoods | ah, hooray | 17:13 |
| wwoods | yes I do | 17:13 |
| viking_ice | install both pidgin and empathy or just pidgin | 17:14 |
| with default installs | ||
| * bpepple is reading scroll back. | 17:14 | |
| viking_ice | Is there anything against both of the im clients | 17:14 |
| being installed by default? | ||
| wwoods | viking_ice: there's no discussion there, afaik. | 17:15 |
| Empathy will be installed by default because it's required by GNOME | ||
| 2.24. | ||
| wwoods | the only question is whether we install pidgin as well. | 17:15 |
| f13 | viking_ice: bloat | 17:15 |
| viking_ice | That's not a question.. | 17:15 |
| bpepple | f13: I maintain the telepathy stack, and I co-maintain empathy. | 17:15 |
| viking_ice | Install it as well | 17:15 |
| viking_ice | give people the chance to adapted in F10 by having | 17:16 |
| them both then just have empathy in F11 | ||
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| wwoods | bpepple: so were you wondering about the QA | 17:16 |
| implications of installing pidgin by default? or asking what the QA | ||
| verdict on Empathy was? | ||
| wwoods | I mean we already install libpurple, since Empathy | 17:17 |
| needs it for AIM | ||
| wwoods | so we already have a large chunk of pidgin installed | 17:17 |
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| bpepple | I was asking about the qa verdict, but if the ship | 17:17 |
| has sailing on changing the default I understand, but I think we're | ||
| going to take a beating from the community about changing the default. | ||
| f13 | for my vote, I would not be opposed to making the default | 17:18 |
| switch at this point | ||
| wwoods | or just installing both | 17:18 |
| bpepple | wwoods: btw, jlaska was mentioning yesterday that aim | 17:18 |
| wasn't working in Empathy, though he hasn't had time to file a bug. | ||
| viking_ice | I say Both | 17:18 |
| jds2001 | right, but there's a menu option of IM client | 17:18 |
| wwoods | and having a release note mentioning that pidgin won't | 17:19 |
| installed by default anymore in F11 (or whenever Empathy meets some | ||
| specification) | ||
| jds2001 | the discussion is whether that option gives you | 17:19 |
| pidgin or empathy, right? | ||
| wwoods | bpepple: WFM | 17:19 |
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| bpepple | wwoods: that's good, if aim wasn't working I would | 17:20 |
| say that would be a blocker. | ||
| f13 | jds2001: I don't think so | 17:20 |
| f13 | jds2001: they would both be in the menu if both were installed | 17:20 |
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| viking_ice | for the first time actually 2 hours ago I managed | 17:20 |
| to get a connection in empathy with msn | ||
| wwoods | jds2001: no, I think we have to install empathy, since | 17:20 |
| it's part of GNOME.. but I guess not? | ||
| wwoods | you can remove just the 'empathy' package without | 17:20 |
| pulling out a bunch of GNOME deps | ||
| viking_ice | and that's in the whole f10 dev cycle | 17:21 |
| jds2001 | right - i was thinking more .desktop files | 17:21 |
| wwoods | telepathy and empathy-libs still are requred by GNOME though | 17:21 |
| bpepple | wwoods: I don't think it's a hard requirement yet. | 17:21 |
| jds2001 | there's an option in the menu that says something to | 17:22 |
| the effect of IM, Video, Whatever (sorry on a Windows box atm) | ||
| bpepple | but we should verify that with walters or mclasen. | 17:22 |
| Truthfully, they should be included in the discussion anyhow since | ||
| they are the feature owners on this. | ||
| wwoods | bpepple: should we ping 'em in advance of the FESCo meeting? | 17:23 |
| f13 | jds2001: we can't have package sets that both use the | 17:23 |
| same menu entry | ||
| f13 | jds2001: because then you wouldn't easily be able to have | 17:23 |
| them both installed. | ||
| bpepple | yeah, definitely. I was going to talk in more | 17:23 |
| general terms of the feature process, since I thought it was too late | ||
| to be reverting Empathy. | ||
| jds2001 | f13: right, we're talking past each other here, but | 17:24 |
| not a big deal :) | ||
| wwoods | It's not too late to discuss it, anyway | 17:24 |
| * jds2001 not a desktop guy at any rate. | 17:24 | |
| viking_ice | Have both pidgin and empathy install. let the user | 17:24 |
| choose and let empathy play catchup with pidgin and mature a bit. if | ||
| pidgin is not installed by default it will stir up the community and | ||
| empathy does not even support half of what pidgin does | ||
| wwoods | the change can still be made, even if I would have | 17:24 |
| been much happier if this discussion had happened earlier | ||
| wwoods | but then, how would that have worked? at what point | 17:25 |
| were we supposed to say "nope, this doesn't meet our unwritten | ||
| requirements" | ||
| bpepple | wwoods: agreed, that's what I would really like to | 17:25 |
| cover in FESCo, so we don't have this happen again. | ||
| wwoods | anyway, that's for the FESCo meeting | 17:25 |
| wwoods | the takeaway for QA is: we need more detailed test | 17:26 |
| plans / specs to make these kinds of decisions clearer | ||
| wwoods | I think that's all we need to say about that for now | 17:26 |
| wwoods | (FESCo meeting in ~30min) | 17:26 |
| wwoods | anything else we should discuss? | 17:26 |
| viking_ice | Ofcourse there is the whole wiki thing.. | 17:27 |
| viking_ice | but that can wait.. | 17:27 |
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| wwoods | yeah, we got a bit tied up with f10pr stuff | 17:28 |
| wwoods | viking_ice: we should discuss and send mail to | 17:28 |
| -test-list or -devel-list or something | ||
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| wwoods | short summary: we're bringing back the idea of the QA: | 17:29 |
| wiki namespace and per-package test plans / bug reporting info | ||
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| wwoods | we need to define the required data for the page | 17:29 |
| f13 | I gotta head to food, before it gets cold and wife gets angry | 17:29 |
| viking_ice | Well the devel-list and approval is what I need to | 17:29 |
| move forward at this moment | ||
| wwoods | and get dev buy-in | 17:29 |
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| wwoods | but yeah | 17:29 |
| wwoods | lunches need to happen now | 17:30 |
| viking_ice | and of course cooper action + we need to make the | 17:30 |
| default template first.. | ||
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| wwoods | viking_ice: yeah, default template and a couple examples. | 17:31 |
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| wwoods | anyway. let's call the meeting over | 17:31 |
| wwoods | thanks for the time, sorry we went over | 17:31 |
| wwoods | jds2001: if you can send me a log I would really appreciate it | 17:31 |
| wwoods | I'll put it up with the other at | 17:31 |
| http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/fedora-qa/ | ||
| jds2001 | sure thing :) | 17:32 |
| wwoods | thanks a bunch! | 17:32 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is | 17:32 | |
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| using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See | ||
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