--- Log opened Wed Jan 21 11:06:30 2009
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init11:06
wwoodsf13, jlaska, jds2001, poelcat: ping11:06
* jlaska 11:07
wwoodsand anyone else who's here for the QA meeting, say hello for the log11:07
* f13 11:07
* viking_ice *11:07
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wwoodsagenda for this week is really just: Alpha11:11
wwoodsin theory we froze yesterday11:11
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wwoods(insert stupid joke about snow in Raleigh here)11:11
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-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Alpha status11:12
wwoodsthe Alpha test result page is here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_11_Alpha_Install_Test_Results11:12
wwoods(yes, it's still on the wiki)11:12
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wwoodsF11Alpha tracker bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=F11Alpha 11:13
buggbotBug 476773: medium, low, ---, notting@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Fedora 11 Alpha tracker11:13
wwoodsI see some test results from sandeen and f13 - thanks guys11:13
f13I culled the tracker a bit yesterday too11:13
wwoodsf13: so what's the nutshell summary of F11Alpha? I assume we're using rawhide as the test tree11:14
f13yesterday's rawhide really11:15
f13so the nutshell is.11:15
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f13We've got one big that will likely hit a lot of people, and that's the nash mounting by label/UUID race condition. (bug     480667)11:16
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=480667 medium, low, ---, pjones@redhat.com, NEW, nash unable to find dm devs by uuid or label causing boot to fail11:16
f13however pjones hasn't been able to make any progress on it, and doesn't think he'll be able to in any reasonable amount of time for the alpha.  There are some workarounds though11:16
f13so my feeling is that we'll move that bug along to Beta, but post the workarounds when we post ALpha11:16
* jds2001 wanders in late11:17
f13THere are two bugs related to networking in anaconda, bug  480769 (has a patch posted and tested), and bug  480856 (I still need to chat with dcantrell about how to fix this one right)11:18
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=480769 medium, low, ---, jkeating@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, No networking configured after rawhide kickstart install11:18
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=480856 medium, low, ---, dcantrell@redhat.com, NEW, resolv.conf gets overwritten when hostname with a domain is provided11:18
f13the first one was my fault.11:18
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f13that leaves a packaging conflict with a package that isn't even in the Fedora spin, so not critical and can get moved on (bug  473186)11:19
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=473186 medium, medium, ---, jskala@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Conflict with coreutils11:19
wwoodsf13: "your fault" as in - you're responsible for the bad code, or you misconfigured something in your test?11:19
f13a fontconfig bug that is supposedly fixed and I tagged it for the alpha (bug     480774)11:19
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=480774 medium, low, ---, besfahbo@redhat.com, MODIFIED, Fontconfig cache files in bogus ~/${localstatedir}11:19
f13and finally a bug that will hit anybody doing live from USB which is a big area of people (bug  480112)11:20
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=480112 medium, low, ---, atkac@redhat.com, NEW, mtools fails11:20
f13wwoods: my fault as in I'm responsible for the bad code.  I fixed one bug in that code area but introduced another.11:20
wwoodsf13: ah. oops. 11:20
wwoodsyeah, liveUSB is fun and popular11:21
f13so we need to get pressure on somebody to fix the mtools issue11:22
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f13the rest (anaconda) should be fixable today provided dcantrell shows up and gives me some guidance11:22
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jlaskafrom what I can gather so far ... ppc is not bootable11:23
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wwoodsI'll have to ping notting about getting a traceback for that mtools bug (or a reproducer)11:24
f13oh right, jlaska why isn't that bug on the tracker?11:25
jlaskaI'll be happy to put it on the tracker11:25
wwoodsplease do11:25
jlaskaroger ... added11:26
wwoodshow close are we to needing to start the push? are we comfortable releasing F11a without ppc if it comes to that?11:26
f13well. that's a jwb question I thik.11:27
jds2001our 6 ppc users might take exception, but other than that......11:27
f13he's the best thing we have to a person at the helm of ppc11:27
jwbit's fine11:27
f13in order to meet our Tuesday deadline, I'd need to start composing no later than tomorrow11:27
f13we can mash pretty quickly now, (2~ hours) so we can do some tagging tomorrow and start mashing-composing in the afternoon11:28
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f13but I have to get bits posted for mirrors by Friday EOB11:28
jlaskaI think it's worth investigating the ppc bug and formulating a plan11:28
wwoodsso, tomorrow "afternoon" we need final builds tagged? got a rough time for that?11:28
jlaskaif the fix is too hard, we can certainly postpone11:28
f13jlaska: I do too, what resources do you have for this investigation?11:29
wwoodsright, so we'll need an idea of how much time we have - and how much time the fix will take - to make that decision11:29
wwoodsI've got a ppc64 machine at the ready for testin', but I need bits11:30
f13other than jwb and dwmw2, we don't really have any Fedora ppc resources.  Can we borrow some RHT ppc resources?11:30
jlaskaf13: I can test it out the wazzoo11:30
f13jlaska: we need somebody producing something for us to test :/11:30
jwbit would be nice11:30
jlaskahardware isn't a problem for me11:30
jlaskaf13: right11:30
f13hardware wasn't the resources I was referring to11:30
* jlaska nods11:31
jlaskathen I guess that's our resolution for now ... no resources available?11:31
f13I have multiple ppc here too11:31
f13jlaska: I think we need to send up a flare within RHT11:31
wwoodsPPC FUBAR, PLZ HALP11:32
jlaskaI'll see if dhowells has any cycles11:32
f13hrm, no boot.iso for ppc today :/11:32
wwoodsokay, we'll see if we can pull in someone to look at bug 48084211:34
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=480842 high, low, ---, kernel-maint@redhat.com, NEW, F11 Rawhide kernel fails to boot on ppc - /vmlinuz: Not a valid ELF image11:34
f135B./usr/lib/kernel-wrapper/virtex405-head.o: error while loading shared libraries: ./usr/lib/kernel-wrapper/virtex405-head.o: only ET_DYN and ET_EXEC can be loaded11:35
wwoodsif we don't have any forward progress by.. f13? pick a cutoff time tomorrow?11:35
f13I wonder if that has anything to do with it.11:35
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f13wwoods: tomorrow, 3pm Pacific, 6pm Eastern11:36
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wwoodsOkay. If no forward progress by then, we'll have to go forward without ppc for Alpha, I guess. We'll still make it a priority to get fixed for Rawhide ASAP11:36
wwoodsunless anyone thinks it's worth delaying alpha for ppc?11:37
wwoodsI think half our PPC users are in the meeting so we'll go forward with this plan11:38
f13should probably throw that out at the lists for a day11:38
wwoodsI'll mention it when I mail f-t-l with the log11:38
wwoodsnow that I think harder.. this is a non-blocking freeze, so I assume there are alpha trees somewhere?11:41
f13the closest we have is yesterday's rawhide11:42
f13I was still trying to decide if we were going to sign packages or not, which we aren't.11:42
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wwoodsokay, so rawhide == alpha unless otherwise noted11:43
f13and I wanted a fixed anaconda in the release candidate tree11:43
f13yesterday's rawhide.11:43
wwoodsoh. that's harder.11:43
f13today's rawhide has things beyond the alpha tag11:43
wwoodscan you add a link to the test results page?11:43
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wwoodsokay, so, actions:11:47
wwoods- wwoods to follow up on mtools/liveUSB problem (bug 480112)11:47
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=480112 medium, low, ---, atkac@redhat.com, NEW, mtools fails11:47
wwoods- f13 to add link to alpha candidate tree to test page (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_11_Alpha_Install_Test_Results11:47
wwoods- jlaska + jwb to try to find someone to look at ppc bug (480842) 11:48
wwoodscutoff for new builds is 6pm US eastern (2300UTC) tomorrow11:49
* poelcat has a question after ppc discussion is done11:49
wwoodsbeyond those things - what needs testing in the next day?11:49
f13Live images11:50
* viking_ice has several other matters to discuss as well after the ppc discussion 11:50
f13and things still blank on the testing page11:50
wwoodsright. (are there not Live cases on the testing page? we should fix that..)11:50
f13yeah, we should.11:50
wwoodsanyone want to throw a couple Live cases on there, or put together a separate Live results page (like we had for F10)?11:51
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viking_icewwoods: throw it in the qa trac11:53
wwoodsthrow.. what?11:53
wwoodsadd a ticket to create the live results stuff?11:53
viking_icewwoods: Create a ticket in the fedora-qa trac instance on fedora hosted that a tescases are needed for the live spins11:55
wwoodsI guess that's a good idea. the trac instance kind of appeared without my assistance so I'm not quite used to it yet11:55
viking_iceon the wiki11:55
jlaskayes, viking_ice and I would like to experiment with tracking all administrative requests for the QA group using trac tickets (for test plan/case update/create requests) etc.11:55
wwoodssounds fine11:55
jds2001wwoods: i made you the admin :)11:55
jds2001so if you can grant rights to viking_ice and jlaska that'd be hotness.11:56
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wwoodsokay - what else?11:56
viking_iceThere are few more matters to discuses 1. New QA wiki page --> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/Draft/QA    2.We have now our own Fedora QA trac instance on fedorahosted.org so lets start using it advertise it etc.    3 Formal voted QA SIG and discussions held in open and decision made in the open..  Meetings agenda published ahead of the meeting + I'm sure polecat can give points to the current self pointed and the new one if11:57
viking_ice he does not remain the one and the same person on how to communicate to a community .. 5. Cloud resource Ideas 6. Wiki clean up/rewrite 7. Status on Test Cases for F11 Features 8. Statuses on test cases for package/service in general ( automation wiki etc )11:57
f13poelcat: what was your topic?11:57
f13(just so that we can get a full view of the agenda)11:57
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wwoodsadded jlaska and johannbg as TRAC_ADMIN in fedora-qa12:00
wwoodspoelcat: ping? topic?12:00
poelcatf13: not urgent for now, but I noticed on schedule there is not room for three snapshots during beta12:00
wwoodssounds like a rel-eng topic, but my informal suggestion would be: so let's do 212:01
poelcatfor some reason we only have three weeks for beta testing vs. four for f1012:01
poelcatwwoods: i thought it was a testing topic which is why i raised it :)12:01
poelcatthe last snapshot would overlap final freeze12:01
f13poelcat: weird.  Oh well, we'll just do two snapshots12:01
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viking_icepoelcat: is that week missing not the one that went of during the last release delay?12:02
jlaskapoelcat: what optiosn do we have?12:02
* poelcat updates scheule and goes away12:02
wwoodsI think the origial design was "weekly snapshots", not "exactly 3 snapshots"12:02
wwoodsso if there's only 2 weeks available, we'll do 2 snapshots12:02
poelcatwwoods: just trying to help, sorry to waste your time12:03
jlaskadoes this impact if/how devel content needs to be in ... or is that already accounted for?12:03
jlaskathese are just "snapshots" ... so I'm guessing so12:03
wwoodsno, not a waste of time - just a straightforward solution, I think12:03
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wwoodsif you're nervous about doing less snapshots let's talk later about how we can alleviate that a bit12:04
* poelcat is not nervous about anything12:05
poelcatyou can move on12:05
wwoodsfair 'nuff12:05
wwoodsokay, viking_ice's topics12:05
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA meeting | new QA wiki page12:06
viking_ice1.  replace the  old wiki pages for this one  --> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/Draft/QA12:06
viking_iceThis is much more simpler layout and tidier than our current one12:06
wwoodsand AFAICT it contains all the important info12:07
wwoodsthe old page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA12:07
wwoodsanyone opposed to replacing it?12:07
jlaskaviking_ice: care to kick off a ticket for that change?12:07
jlaskanone here :)12:07
f13my only nit is that the Development link may send people off into developing packages for Fedora, rather thanhelping the QA effort develop QA tools and infrastructure12:08
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jds2001viking_ice: just make sure to name pages according to the proper standard.12:08
viking_icef13: where they end is a win win for Fedora :)12:08
wwoodsyeah, I guess we could make a ticket for it, but.. I'd prefer we just JFDI and edit the page after it's been changed12:08
jlaskawwoods: agreed, we can do both :)12:08
* jds2001 doesn't like getting bogged down in bearuacracy12:08
jds2001of opening tickets, deciding by committee who does what, etc. as wwoods said, this should be part of "Project JFDI"12:09
jlaskano objections for now12:09
wwoodsoh, true - the wiki team likes it better if you name things like "Quality Control" rather than "QA/QC"12:10
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wwoodsbut, yeah, viking_ice: please go ahead and replace the current QA page with yours12:10
wwoodsand thanks very much for your help12:10
viking_icelet's move on12:11
wwoodsI assume you'll need to move QA/QC as well, and the Test Days page12:11
wwoodsbut yes12:11
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | Trac instance12:11
wwoodsobviously, we have a trac instance now12:11
wwoods(thanks for getting that set up)12:11
wwoodsmyself, viking_ice, and jlaska are admins12:11
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viking_iceThis was apply so we can keep track our selfs what needs to be done etc and for maintainers/developers to file a ticket for test cases for their feature and general other related QA stuff12:13
viking_iceTrac instance is kinda self explanatory so I think this can just be closed with lets start using it :)12:13
wwoodsyeah, it's an excellent idea - we can have tickets for QA tasks on e.g. features, tracking which ones need a spec / test plan written, etc12:14
wwoodsgreat idea, guys. thanks for doing that.12:14
wwoodslet's use it.12:14
viking_iceyup and will even come more in handy when we start getting cloud resources and thinks are getting a bit more automated..12:14
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | Make QA a formal SIG12:14
jlaskalet's start small and keep it simple at first until we can establish a process for creating/assigning/working tickets etc..12:14
wwoodsviking_ice: your list was missing #4 - is #3 "make QA a formal sig with a voted-on board" and #4 "publish agendas before the metting"?12:15
wwoodserr, meeting12:16
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viking_icewell yeah12:17
wwoodsokay then12:17
wwoodsif we're going to make QA a formal SIG - with a board, etc - we need to establish voting procedure, sponsorship procedure, board size and composition12:17
f13wwoods: Formal sigs don't necessarily have to have a voted in board.12:18
viking_iceAnd that SIG needs to be made of a member of other SIG ( as I see it )12:18
wwoodsI think that was what viking_ice was proposing, though12:18
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wwoodsI think it would be good to *at least* establish board size/composition and sponsorship procedure12:19
viking_iceEver since ( after the i586 incident ) I joined the loop and before that there has not been any formal QA atleast not my knowledge12:20
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viking_iceAt that time it was wwoods or jeremy I think at the whole who are QA and now just you wwoods right? have not seen much of jeremy for a long time12:21
wwoodsmost of the reason this stuff hasn't been formalized in the past is.. we just don't have time for that kind of administative overhead12:21
jds2001or really the need, IMO.12:21
f13viking_ice: there was a single Red Hat resource dedicated to Fedora QA at the time, and that was wwoods12:21
f13viking_ice: everything else was volunteer12:21
viking_iceQA is more then being just testers for team anaconda12:21
wwoodsjeremy's got a lot going on these days, but yes, essentially I lead the QA "group", but the composition (and leadership) of that group is otherwise undefined12:21
wwoodsI'm hoping to get more assitance in this area very soon12:22
wwoodserr, assistance12:23
viking_iceThere are discussions like the update vs updates-testing stuff that need a final decisions12:23
wwoodsbecause I can't do release testing *and* community management *and* tool development12:23
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wwoods(and test plan development and on and on)12:23
viking_icehence A QA SIG12:24
wwoodsviking_ice: did you have a proposal for the board size/composition, voting procedure/frequency, etc?12:24
wwoodsor are you suggesting that we should start writing one?12:24
viking_iceThink about it mostly for now perhaps F12 Feature ..12:25
viking_iceAt least this is noting that's being done today..12:25
viking_iceThis is something that needs to be discussed on test-list12:26
wwoodsagreed. 12:27
viking_iceMatter 4 Discussions held in open and decision made in the open..12:27
wwoodswell, IRC and test-list are "open", so far as that goes, but better use of the mailing list would be preferable12:27
viking_iceThere has been already a certain thread on devel regarding this issue12:28
wwoodsfor discussing designs and long-term goals and things12:28
wwoodsviking_ice: which thread are you referring to?12:29
viking_iceyup no decisions made at the water cooler at a certain company unless at least people are kept involved12:29
viking_iceSpin meeting12:30
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viking_iceFrom my perspective that thread should have been on their mailing list12:30
viking_iceThe announcement was fine and good from my perspective12:31
wwoods(for the record)12:31
viking_iceAnyway all this narrows down lack of communication12:32
jds2001viking_ice: what thread?12:32
viking_iceLet's just try to keep that to minimum shall we :)12:32
jds2001viking_ice: i dont see anything objectionable about that post.12:33
wwoodsit's the "let's not exclude the community by having meetings offline" thread 12:33
wwoodsthat's spilled onto the fedora planet12:33
jds2001we *did* have a spins meeting at fudcon12:33
wwoodsapparently some people objected to the fact that things were decided at FUDCon12:33
jds2001but that's what fudcon is for.  We also had a FESCo meeting, and I (rightly) took heat for that.12:33
jwbwe didn't decide anything12:34
jwbwe came up with a skeleton process proposal12:34
jwbpeople bitched about that and ignored the fact that it was a proposal12:34
wwoodsI know12:34
f13jds2001: there was precidence for having fesco meetings at fudcons12:34
jwbit was voted on at the Spins SIG meeting, which is where the decision actually occurred12:34
wwoodsright. The discussion happened at FUDCon, fully-formed proposal went to the list, a week was given for discussion with vote to happen at the meeting12:35
wwoodsI don't see anything wrong, except maybe that the proposal wasn't clearly labeled as a discussion draft / proposal12:36
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wwoodsso, in short: watercooler talk still OK, watercooler decisions not OK12:37
wwoodsso make sure that any proposal that comes from watercooler / FUDCon talk 12:37
wwoodsis clearly labeled as DISCUSSION DRAFT / PROPOSAL / NOT FINAL12:37
wwoodsand give people a week or so to argue before voting on it.12:38
f13there are those that will file IRC under "watercooler"12:38
jwbwhich is fair-ish12:38
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f13so perhaps; unless a topic was pre-announced on foo-mailinglist with enough time before a meeting, said meeting cannot "decide" on topic until proper mailing list time has been reached.12:39
f13(god I hate what I just wrote)12:39
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wwoodshow about: don't make important decisions without giving the relevant mailing list(s) some time (suggested: a week) to argue12:39
jds2001i see that as more of an impediment to progress instead of helping it.12:39
f13boils down to the same thing.12:40
wwoodsthings like wiki page edits? not important enough to merit discussion12:40
f13jds2001: I do too, but then again it's easy for us to attend all the interesting IRC meetings12:40
f13jds2001: if we had to get up at 3am to attend IRC meeting so that our opinion could be heard in time, we might think differently12:40
wwoodsit's only a small impediment, so long as we're careful with the interpretation of "important decisions"12:40
viking_icejds2001: I disagree12:40
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wwoodsmost decisions we make are not important enough to warrant list discussion12:41
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viking_icewwoods; I disagree but hey..12:41
viking_icewwoods; well most decisions so far..12:41
wwoodse.g. not delaying alpha for ppc, "should we use trac?", moving the wiki page, etc.12:42
jwbnow wait a damn minute12:42
jwboh... you were goading me12:42
* jwb ignores12:42
wwoodsyes, I'm bringing ppc to the list12:42
wwoodseven though the landing ramp is so very short 12:43
wwoodsokay so: we won't be making important decisions without running it by the lists (and therefore the rest of the community). 12:44
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wwoodsdeciding which ones are "important decisions" is left, in the end, to the judgement of the team lead12:45
wwoodsbut any team lead who abuses this to exclude the community does so at their own peril.12:45
viking_iceindeed if that team lead is voted upon12:45
viking_iceby the community12:46
wwoodswell, we'll see about that. I'd rather avoid bringing no-confidence voting and other beauracracy into it12:46
wwoodsand just mandate "DON'T BE A DICK"12:46
f13anything else on the agenda?12:47
wwoodsand if the entire community thinks you're failing, well, you need to re-examine your priorities and get some help.12:47
f13my stomach is angry at missing breakfast.12:47
viking_ice5. Cloud resource12:47
viking_iceYes we need lots of those for automated testing.12:47
wwoods5. Cloud resource Ideas, 6. Wiki clean up/rewrite 7. Status on Test Cases for F11 Features, 8. Statuses on test cases for package/service in general (automation, wiki, etc)12:47
wwoodsinfrastructure's working on it, and we're still pretty far off from being able to do automated *functional* testing12:48
wwoodswe're working on some automated sanity testing etc, as discussed at FUDCon12:48
wwoodsthat stuff - esp. the lab-in-a-box / post-install-check test - is a pre-requisite for any automated functional testing12:49
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wwoodsinfrastructure's working on the cloud stuff, and AFAICT they'll be ready before we will.12:49
wwoodsthey're aware that we're going to want to use some of those resources for automated testing and confident they'll be able to handle it.12:50
wwoodsbut that's probably F12-era at the earliest.12:50
wwoodsokay. 6. Wiki clean up/rewrite12:50
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | wiki cleanup/rewrite12:50
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wwoodsyeah. we have the QA: namespace now, and the wiki guys want natural language names for pages12:51
wwoods(and I do to, to a certain extent)12:51
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wwoodsso: put test cases and plans in the QA namespace. use natural names for them. 12:51
wwoodswe don't have established naming guidelines - yet12:51
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f13I think a good rule of thumb is to name it how somebody would search for it12:52
viking_iceMe and jlaska have been bouncing of ideas of total QA rewrite test cases etc and have been moving closer to ( tlp.sf.net ) of writing those test cases12:53
f13I'd search for "<package> test"12:53
f13or <package> QA12:53
f13or just <package> within the QA namespace12:53
viking_iceI would do that to search for <package>12:53
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* wwoods submits a ticket for himself: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/412:54
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f13clearly we need <package> to be on it's own, what words/names we put around it is the fun question12:54
wwoodsif anyone else wants to take it, feel free12:54
wwoodsyeah, <package> would probably have links to the test plan, debugging tips, etc.12:54
wwoodsso that's ongoing, we need naming guidelines, discuss on-list and/or in that ticket.12:55
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | status of test cases for F11 Features12:55
viking_icethis is my example structure of that <package>http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Johannbg/Draft/QA/file-roller12:55
wwoodsTest Cases ("How to Test") aren't required until Beta. 12:56
wwoodsat Alpha we require each accepted feature to have a Scope section that specifies what, exactly, the feature will do (and what things it changes)12:56
f13wwoods: I just meant urls should be QA:<something>_<package>_<more_something>12:57
f13so that a search for <package> will find the <something>_<Package>_<more_something> pages.12:57
wwoodsf13: right12:58
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wwoodsnow. should we create categories - say "QA Approved Feature Page", "Features with incomplete Scope", "Features with bad test plans"12:59
wwoodsand put the features in those categories as appropriate?13:00
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wwoodsviking_ice: did you see my message about using wiki categories?13:01
wwoods"QA Approved Feature Page", "Features with incomplete Scope", "Features with bad test plans"13:01
viking_iceugh.. :)13:01
wwoodsviking_ice: is there a better way to do it?13:02
wwoodswe need some way to coordinate QA's review of feature pages13:02
viking_icedont have anything better <yet> (:13:02
wwoodsand to mark pages so FESCo knows QA's disposition for each13:02
wwoodsso until someone has a better idea13:03
wwoodslet's use those categories13:03
viking_icefine by me...13:03
viking_iceFeature 20SecondStartup Test case is nearly complete..13:04
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wwoodsyeah, that's a really good one13:05
wwoodsI'll create those categories and start using them13:05
wwoodsand I'll try to flesh out the text of the category page13:05
viking_iceh\h was unresponsive when I ping him.. on devel13:05
wwoodsto tell people why their feature is marked as having incomplete scope (and what to do about it)13:05
wwoodsnot sure what time zone h\h is in, but he's not always easy to find13:06
wwoodsemailing him might work better?13:06
wwoodsanyway, finally:13:06
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | Status of test cases for package/service in general (automation, wiki, etc)13:06
wwoodsas mentioned earlier - it will be many months until we can do automated testing of packages/services13:07
wwoodsas for writing test plans etc. and putting them in the wiki, at least...13:07
viking_icethe wiki and the test cases are in the works..13:07
wwoodsviking_ice: do you have anything to report here? you said you were talking with jlaska about this?13:07
wwoodsthe file-roller page looks like a good template13:07
viking_icewell does not scale we need to come up with template for gui apps ( open file save file etc )13:08
viking_iceKinda bumped into that early :)13:08
f13h\h is in Germany IIRC13:09
viking_iceThis was written as an example for other maintainer/packager13:09
viking_icethe file-roller13:10
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viking_iceas on how to write test-cases13:10
viking_iceIf they want us to do it for them they can file a ticket?13:10
wwoodssure, I don't see why not.. except they should know that we're still figuring out the format and stuff13:11
wwoodsso it might take a little while13:11
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viking_icewell jfdi on that one getting something down is better then having nothing..13:12
wwoodsso yeah, if a maintainer wants help writing a test plan for their package, they can file a ticket and we'll do whatever we can13:12
wwoodsoh, we should probably have a link to the trac instance on the main QA wiki page13:12
viking_icewhen we can..13:12
wwoods(unless it's there and I just didn't see it)13:13
viking_iceits not on the new QA page ( wrote that one long time ago )13:13
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viking_icewill add it..13:14
wwoodsgood stuff13:14
wwoodsokay. anything else? we're waaay over time13:14
viking_icenothing more from me for now..13:14
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wwoodsalright then. log will go up in a few seconds13:15
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wwoodsthanks for your time, folks, and sorry it took a while13:15
wwoodsviking_ice, thanks again for your initiative here13:15
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule13:15
--- Log closed Wed Jan 21 13:15:54 2009

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