| --- Log opened Wed Mar 11 13:10:49 2009 | ||
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA meeting | init | 13:10 | |
| wwoods | QA meeting time | 13:11 |
|---|---|---|
| wwoods | f13, jlaska, poelcat, adamw, viking_ice: ping | 13:11 |
| * jlaska | 13:11 | |
| wwoods | (and anyone else who's here, say hi for the log) | 13:11 |
| adamw | oh, bonus! | 13:11 |
| f13 | oh damn, xchat-gnome can't do empty /me | 13:11 |
| adamw | hi | 13:12 |
| -!- giallu [n=giallu@fedora/giallu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] | 13:12 | |
| * viking_ice * | 13:12 | |
| * f13 <blank> | 13:12 | |
| wwoods | f13: try /me [ctrl-B] | 13:12 |
| viking_ice | /me [ctrl-B] | 13:12 |
| wwoods | if you can emit the mIRC bold etc. control characters | 13:12 |
| * wwoods | 13:12 | |
| f13 | wwoods: no such luck. | 13:12 |
| viking_ice | hahaha | 13:12 |
| * f13 | 13:12 | |
| f13 | ah there we go, added a space. | 13:12 |
| wwoods | then doing the bold character - followed by no text - gets you an empty line | 13:12 |
| wwoods | old, stupid IRC trick | 13:12 |
| * wwoods is an IRC mute! | 13:12 | |
| wwoods | 13:12 | |
| wwoods | ahem. anyway | 13:13 |
| f13 | see, irssi just let me do empty /me s | 13:13 |
| wwoods | so, first things first | 13:13 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA meeting | review last week's minutes | 13:13 | |
| wwoods | http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/fedora-qa/fedora-qa-20090304.log.html | 13:13 |
| wwoods | [jlaska+adamw] - update on semantic packaging | 13:14 |
| jlaska | I haven't gotten far here ... just got mediawiki installed and configured this morning :( | 13:14 |
| wwoods | well, that's a start | 13:15 |
| wwoods | keep us posted | 13:15 |
| adamw | nothing from me - i am waiting on jlaska to get it working, then i will do the package | 13:15 |
| jlaska | still need to wedge in the semantic extension | 13:15 |
| wwoods | [jlaska] - review upstream xorg test suite status (in addition to piglit) ... for use during upcoming Xorg driver specific test day | 13:15 |
| jlaska | will do ... let's raise it again for next week | 13:15 |
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| wwoods | sure | 13:16 |
| wwoods | [wwoods] - discuss with f13 + jakub a method for identifying similar gcc4.4 optimization bugs | 13:16 |
| jlaska | I'm hoping to have someone on the RHEL X testing team join on the test day to provide more information on the upstream test suite | 13:16 |
| wwoods | haven't done anything on that - AFAIK we haven't seen other miscompilations, luckily | 13:16 |
| f13 | I haven't talked with jakub about that yet | 13:16 |
| f13 | I've been too focused on other beta emergencies | 13:17 |
| wwoods | didn't we get a fixed gcc for that issue? | 13:17 |
| adamw | i have a contribution there - i talked with ben skeggs a bit about rendercheck | 13:17 |
| jlaska | adamw: ah right, good update (re: rendercheck) | 13:17 |
| adamw | sorry, that's for x test stuff. ben suggested providing it as a scratch build for the nouveau test day | 13:17 |
| adamw | he didn't think it made sense as a regular package in the distro | 13:17 |
| wwoods | adamw: oh, sure, that's fine | 13:17 |
| adamw | i thought maybe it did, so we could use it for other tests in future | 13:17 |
| wwoods | scratch build or a private repo | 13:17 |
| adamw | i'm waiting for his reply on that | 13:18 |
| wwoods | either would work. it's dead simple to set up a private repo on your fedora people page | 13:18 |
| adamw | but we'll have a package for it in some form :) for the nouveau test day. | 13:18 |
| wwoods | well, I mean, that's a *public* repo | 13:18 |
| wwoods | just not part of the official repos | 13:18 |
| * adamw hates single-purpose third-party repos with a passion, but will stow it for a more appropriate forum | 13:18 | |
| wwoods | heh | 13:18 |
| wwoods | oh, nobody likes them, but they're useful for things that are well and truly temporary | 13:19 |
| adamw | sorry, anyhow, that's the status there - continue! | 13:19 |
| wwoods | if it's not temporary, get it in the dang repo | 13:19 |
| wwoods | err. the dang distro | 13:19 |
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| wwoods | offhand, does anyone have a bug ID for the example gcc miscompiles | 13:20 |
| wwoods | so we have some reference for exactly *which* gcc bug we're asking jakub about | 13:20 |
| wwoods | reading the gcc changelog there's.. a significant amount of stuff going on there | 13:21 |
| wwoods | http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=93643 | 13:21 |
| adamw | i can pull out the reports, er, just a sec... | 13:21 |
| adamw | damn, no, can't find 'em | 13:22 |
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| adamw | i note from the vte changelog, though, that the workaround was removed after an update to gcc | 13:23 |
| adamw | so presumably for that one, whatever was wrong in gcc has been fixed | 13:23 |
| adamw | http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487844 is the nspr (firefox) bug | 13:24 |
| buggbot | Bug 487844: medium, medium, ---, kengert, ASSIGNED, Aliasing and Optimizations cause numeric conversion errors | 13:24 |
| nirik | the webkit one was I think similar or the same issue... bug 488112 | 13:25 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=488112 medium, low, ---, peter, MODIFIED, WebKit crashes in midori and layout issues | 13:25 |
| wwoods | alright, we'll try to follow up on that with jakub once there's some spare time | 13:25 |
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| wwoods | adamw: you were going to talk to fcami about a radeon test day.. and intel too? | 13:26 |
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| adamw | ok, we've been talking to the devs | 13:27 |
| adamw | we're aiming to do both | 13:27 |
| adamw | intel test day we're hoping to do tomorrow | 13:27 |
| wwoods | whee! | 13:27 |
| adamw | i have a bunch of awesome stuff from kristian on testing | 13:27 |
| adamw | so for the rest of today i'm going to get that into the wiki page and then jlaska and i are going to try and promote the day | 13:27 |
| wwoods | oh that's excellent | 13:28 |
| -!- petreu| [n=peter@p3EE3E7CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"] | 13:28 | |
| adamw | we're a bit concerned that we're on very short notice for what could be a really good test day, so if we don't get a good response tomorrow, we might do it again on another day. | 13:28 |
| wwoods | oh, can you make sure that there's a link to the info (or the test day page itself) from the feature page | 13:28 |
| viking_ice | let the test span over the weekend | 13:28 |
| wwoods | so that people who are checking out a feature will get that info | 13:28 |
| viking_ice | and just gather results | 13:28 |
| adamw | viking_ice: i'm always careful to have the pages say we can take test results at any time, now | 13:29 |
| adamw | viking_ice: but the main point of the 'day' is to have the relevant people in irc | 13:29 |
| adamw | viking_ice: and we can't really ask the intel devs to hang in -qa irc troubleshooting for a whole weekend :\ | 13:29 |
| adamw | viking_ice: but yep, i'll definitely emphasize that results from the tests are useful at any time | 13:29 |
| viking_ice | when doing hw testing we need as much audience as possible | 13:29 |
| adamw | wwoods: good point, i'll do that for intel then go back and do it for the other features we've done test days on | 13:29 |
| viking_ice | no they can be available for a single day + the result and related discussion can be performed on the test list... | 13:30 |
| wwoods | had some red hat desktop folks poking at crash catcher (now ABRT) and having no idea how to test it | 13:30 |
| viking_ice | then when the devs have time again they can chip onto those threats | 13:30 |
| wwoods | and there was no indication from the feature page that we'd done a test day or anything at all | 13:30 |
| adamw | viking_ice: mostly for async stuff we want to keep it in bugzilla so it's tracked, as usual | 13:31 |
| adamw | viking_ice: that's why i've tried to write all the plans for test days that i've organized so that negative results are filed to bugzilla | 13:32 |
| adamw | wwoods: yep, you're right, i'll definitely add those. | 13:32 |
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| wwoods | so, that's last week covered | 13:34 |
| wwoods | let's talk about this week's bonanza of fun | 13:35 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA meeting | beta looming | 13:35 | |
| wwoods | we have frozen for beta, as I understand it | 13:35 |
| wwoods | we're also trying to switch to larger keys for signing, and.. there's a squashfs problem in anaconda or something? | 13:35 |
| adamw | executive summary: shit's broken | 13:36 |
| wwoods | f13: wanna help with an update here? I've been working on other stuff so I'm not on top of it | 13:36 |
| wwoods | "I can't see anything. Are we boned?" "Yeah, we're boned." | 13:36 |
| f13 | heh | 13:36 |
| f13 | ok, so there is a serious squashfs bug in rawhide kernels | 13:36 |
| f13 | this is particularly bad for installer, since stage2 is squashfs. | 13:37 |
| f13 | this means that just about /anything/ can go wrong in your install due to corrupted filesystem | 13:37 |
| jlaska | bug#489698 | 13:37 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=489698 high, low, ---, kernel-maint, NEW, squashfs zlib corruption | 13:37 |
| f13 | the good news is that the problem has likely been found and a new kernel is forthcoming | 13:37 |
| f13 | http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=93816 | 13:37 |
| f13 | lots of people can reproduce so once that kernel is done I'm going to create some images with it and pass them around to see if that fixes things | 13:38 |
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| f13 | other things going on | 13:38 |
| wwoods | well that doesn't sound so bad | 13:39 |
| wwoods | heh | 13:39 |
| f13 | package signing, a big chunk per day | 13:39 |
| f13 | I'm breaking up the signing into many chuncks so that we can soak up the sync hits across multiple days rather than landing 7K srpms worth of signed packages all at once | 13:39 |
| f13 | so mirrors are going to be a bit slow picking up the signed versions of rpms, but there should be not so much new build churn due to freeze | 13:40 |
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| f13 | There is the anaconda storage rewrite as well | 13:40 |
| f13 | that's getting fixes daily so we'll likely see a new anaconda every day | 13:40 |
| adamw | is that looking like it's going to be in reasonable shape for teh beta? | 13:41 |
| f13 | hard to say | 13:42 |
| f13 | its working well for a good chunk of functionality | 13:42 |
| jlaska | if no other changes were happening in rawhide, I think it would need a week to shake out remaining bugs | 13:42 |
| f13 | I think the work now is on the more ancillary support, like resizing, software raid, etc... | 13:42 |
| f13 | they've got about a week | 13:43 |
| jlaska | right ... I worry that issues like the zlib bug keep us from getting meaningful feedback to the anaconda-devel crew on their daily builds | 13:43 |
| f13 | well. | 13:44 |
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| f13 | that's why we're only taking fixes in the freeze | 13:44 |
| f13 | tested fixes | 13:44 |
| f13 | that's why the freeze exists | 13:44 |
| jlaska | I know ... not criticizing ... just pointing out potential areas that might make the 1 week remaining take longer | 13:45 |
| f13 | sure | 13:46 |
| wwoods | well, we'll see how it goes | 13:47 |
| wwoods | what would we consider the line between "wonky" and "too broken to release"? | 13:47 |
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| adamw | "help! it's on fire!" | 13:48 |
| wwoods | heh | 13:48 |
| viking_ice | it has to be installable and or upgradeable and come with network connection | 13:48 |
| wwoods | heh. sorry. specifically with respect to the storage rewrite | 13:48 |
| adamw | viking_ice: i think the question is specifically what level of installer breakage will we accept... | 13:48 |
| jlaska | the default selections at the parttype screen can't fail | 13:49 |
| adamw | if it's broken for sixteen-disk RAID-10 arrays on LVM on iSCSI on tuesdays in March that's probably OK, for instance | 13:49 |
| wwoods | what if no custom layouts are possible? | 13:49 |
| f13 | fail | 13:49 |
| wwoods | custom layouts OK, unless you use mdraid? | 13:49 |
| f13 | I think mdraid should work too | 13:49 |
| wwoods | custom layouts OK, except no dmraid? | 13:49 |
| f13 | that's a pretty common setup | 13:49 |
| f13 | dmraid is less critical, but still pretty important | 13:49 |
| wwoods | what mdraid levels do we require? what if mdraid is mostly OK, but fails if you try to set a system up with hot spares or something? | 13:50 |
| wwoods | what will we block the release for? | 13:50 |
| jlaska | clumens suggested raising this issue as well ... we might want to pull in the devel folks for what their take is | 13:50 |
| viking_ice | yup | 13:50 |
| f13 | wwoods: hrm, tough call. I think we'll just have to make the decision when the time comes | 13:51 |
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| f13 | raid0,1,5 should work, raid10,10,50,05 probably not as important | 13:51 |
| jlaska | we do have release criteria established ... do these need to be updated? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria | 13:51 |
| wwoods | those are intended to be general release guidelines - intentionally vague to allow interpretation and flexibility | 13:52 |
| jlaska | or reflect additional milestones other than final? | 13:52 |
| wwoods | we are now flexibly interpreting | 13:52 |
| jlaska | yeah, I've always been uncomfortable with that flexibility ... but I recognize it's difficult to think of every possibility ahead of time | 13:53 |
| wwoods | well, feel free to write up a set of guidelines that are specific to the storage portion of anaconda | 13:53 |
| wwoods | write up a test plan and put that in the release guidelines | 13:53 |
| jlaska | heh, I knew the patches accepted was coming :) | 13:54 |
| wwoods | I don't think anyone would argue with that, really | 13:54 |
| wwoods | but first we have to determine what things we want to require. so here we are. | 13:54 |
| wwoods | short answer: simple mdraid setups (0,1,5), LVM, LUKS, and.. what dmraid possibilities are there? | 13:55 |
| f13 | 0,1,5 | 13:55 |
| f13 | basically its hard to pontificate about what bugs we'd accept or reject when we don't know what bugs are there | 13:56 |
| f13 | far easier on a bug by bug level to say Yes or No | 13:56 |
| wwoods | and those can be set up in anaconda? or do they get set up in the BIOS and anaconda just needs to recognize/handle 'em? | 13:56 |
| j-rod | mdraid looked like it was going to work before zlib attacked | 13:56 |
| f13 | once the bugs are known. | 13:56 |
| adamw | yeah, i'm with f13 on it, i've always been rather more on the reactive side | 13:56 |
| jlaska | possibly, it makes it tough for others to discern whether their issue is a blocker or not | 13:56 |
| f13 | wwoods: anaconda just needs to recognize them. | 13:56 |
| viking_ice | Well my opinion is the installation networking yum and upgrading should be rock solid ( in all possible way and form before FINAL if not release blocker ) | 13:56 |
| j-rod | dmraid gets set up in the bios, ana... yeah | 13:56 |
| adamw | it's quite hard to write a list of exactly what theoretical bugs would be critical and what wouldn't, and get it right | 13:57 |
| jlaska | agreed | 13:57 |
| wwoods | disagree. that's the entire point of writing a spec. | 13:57 |
| adamw | viking_ice: we're talking beta here, not GA | 13:57 |
| f13 | jlaska: thats why they should default to putting it on the F11Beta tracker. We'll take care of Yes (leaving it) or No (punting it to F11<SomethingElse>) | 13:57 |
| wwoods | you write up a broad list of the things you expect to work | 13:57 |
| jlaska | I don't think it's hard to however to publish the criteria we'd use to evaluate bugs | 13:57 |
| jlaska | f13: is that new ... so everything goes to blocker and you guys are the gate? | 13:58 |
| wwoods | I really don't know what we're willing to leave broken | 13:58 |
| f13 | jlaska: I don't think its new per se, just not well communicated. | 13:58 |
| * jlaska nods | 13:58 | |
| wwoods | I, for one, do not care if dmraid is broken | 13:58 |
| f13 | wwoods: I don't either. Its judgement calls. | 13:58 |
| wwoods | I have a violent and irrational hatred of it | 13:58 |
| f13 | Does it effect a large number of users? | 13:58 |
| f13 | Is there a fix possible in the next day or so? | 13:58 |
| jlaska | f13 bingo ... # of affected users | 13:58 |
| wwoods | right, there's still going to be judgement calls involved | 13:58 |
| f13 | Is there an easy work around? | 13:58 |
| wwoods | but I don't know if we actually care about, say, dmraid 10. I know we care about LVM. | 13:59 |
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| wwoods | well, whatever, we're spinning | 13:59 |
| wwoods | storage bugs go to F11Beta and we'll exercise judgement as they come in | 13:59 |
| * nirik wonders if qa will be done so fesco could take the room for it's special session... or shall we go to #fedora-meeting-1 ? | 13:59 | |
| jlaska | good discussion ... yeah I don't see us concluding anything in this meeting | 13:59 |
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| * jlaska has a meeting conflict now | 14:00 | |
| wwoods | there's no obvious storage features that we just plain don't care about | 14:00 |
| wwoods | nor any that we will not tolerate even the slightest problem | 14:00 |
| wwoods | so all the shades of gray will be sorted later | 14:00 |
| wwoods | nirik: didn't know that was going on - give us just a sec | 14:01 |
| wwoods | I think we can adjourn to #fedora-qa in a moment | 14:01 |
| nirik | no worries... we can move too, it's not a big deal. | 14:01 |
| wwoods | but first: is there anything that we absolutely must discuss for the Public Record right now? | 14:01 |
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| f13 | I don't think so | 14:02 |
| viking_ice | me neither.. | 14:02 |
| jlaska | several test days coming .... one tomorrow, one next Tuesday ... | 14:02 |
| wwoods | okay then - let's call it done | 14:02 |
| jlaska | check your local listings ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/F11 | 14:02 |
| wwoods | tuesday? nice. make sure to mail -test-list etc. | 14:02 |
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| wwoods | one week 'til beta, right? whee! | 14:03 |
| jlaska | sure ... that's what I do for all the events | 14:03 |
| wwoods | thanks all | 14:03 |
| jlaska | thanks wwoods | 14:03 |
| --- Log closed Wed Mar 11 14:03:17 2009 | ||
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