| --- Log opened Thu Feb 22 11:16:42 2007 | ||
| wwoods | I apologize for mixing up the times. Who's here for Fedora QA? | 11:17 |
|---|---|---|
| wwoods | We're just going to talk real quickly about Test2 | 11:17 |
| wwoods | Anyone? | 11:18 |
| FrancescoUgolini | try to ping them | 11:19 |
| * dmalcolm is here for Fedora QA | 11:20 | |
| wwoods | well, anyway. dmalcolm: what are you up to wrt. test2? | 11:21 |
| wwoods | I know we have a meeting later today to talk about RHTS stuff | 11:21 |
| dmalcolm | wwoods: that was it for me | 11:21 |
| wwoods | well, okay then, we'll talk about that stuff later | 11:22 |
| poelcat | here | 11:22 |
| wwoods | poelcat: are you going to be working on test2 or did you just want to talk rhts / automation stuff? | 11:24 |
| * f13 is here. | 11:24 | |
| f13 | by accident more than anything | 11:25 |
| wwoods | hah | 11:25 |
| wwoods | sucker! you're stuck here now. | 11:25 |
| wwoods | so I haven't yet tried building a test2 tree - will there be public ones before the release? | 11:26 |
| -!- jeremy [i=iiiiiiii@nat/redhat/x-d46083791f29e769] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:26 | |
| wwoods | also: filing bugs for missing packages - file against distribution or what? | 11:26 |
| f13 | not sure on public trees | 11:26 |
| f13 | I could maybe push something to the /projects/ space on download.fedora.redhat.com, but that only gets mirrored to our roundrobin, not to all mirrors | 11:27 |
| wwoods | people have been asking about having nightly isos built | 11:27 |
| f13 | and since its DVD size... | 11:27 |
| wwoods | I gave a handwavy answer about disk space and bandwidth and mirrors | 11:27 |
| f13 | wwoods: the people asking about that clearly don't understand how rawhide can be used. | 11:27 |
| wwoods | indeed | 11:27 |
| f13 | wwoods: yes, missing packages file against distribution | 11:28 |
| wwoods | the counter-point is for people with flaky connections - downloading an iso can be easily resumed | 11:28 |
| wwoods | an installation.. not so much | 11:28 |
| poelcat | wwoods: i can help with test2 | 11:28 |
| -!- EvilBob [n=BobJense@fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen] has joined #Fedora-Meeting | 11:28 | |
| f13 | wwoods: rsync the tree (: | 11:28 |
| f13 | wwoods: even easier to resume | 11:28 |
| wwoods | f13: indeed! although the tree is much larger than e.g. CD1+@ | 11:29 |
| wwoods | err 1+2 | 11:29 |
| BobJensen | wwoods: More people than just mether? | 11:29 |
| wwoods | BobJensen: I think someone else mentioned it to me - but maybe | 11:29 |
| wwoods | heh | 11:29 |
| BobJensen | OK just checking | 11:29 |
| f13 | also, note, that I'll be changing the name from "classic" to somethign else. | 11:30 |
| mether | ok. so who is dragging by name in the mud | 11:30 |
| f13 | apparently classic was a term used for humor effect and not to be used for the spin. | 11:30 |
| BobJensen | mether: Not me, Just seeking clarification | 11:30 |
| wwoods | either way, the fact remains that there's not a clear "here's some ways you can do installations without needing ISO images" | 11:31 |
| wwoods | If someone's got references for that stuff, let me know - I'll be condensing that info into a QA wiki page | 11:31 |
| f13 | wwoods: isn't htat on the Releases/Rawhide page? | 11:31 |
| mether | f13: is it clear yet whether we are doing the everything spin or whether classic would be the first dvd in the everything dvd set | 11:31 |
| f13 | mether: nope. | 11:31 |
| f13 | mether: It's pretty clear that Test2 will not have an everything spin. | 11:31 |
| mether | wwoods: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Testing. IMO releases/rawhide is redundant | 11:31 |
| wwoods | f13: that's only for doing http/ftp installs from the mirrors | 11:31 |
| f13 | wwoods: so it can be expanded upon | 11:32 |
| wwoods | Testing covers the same deal, so yeah, I'll add some stuff to Testing | 11:32 |
| f13 | mether: as to whether or not the Everything spin will compliment any other spin thats pretty up in the air too. Not much time, far more important things to accomplish. | 11:32 |
| mether | so where is the focus currently | 11:33 |
| wwoods | f13: are we doing 'Classic' in addition to Desktop or as a replacement? | 11:33 |
| f13 | wwoods: perhaps a good seperation between explaining what rawhide is vs how to test it and then some cross linking between Releases/ and Test | 11:33 |
| f13 | wwoods: replacement. | 11:33 |
| wwoods | f13: gotcha. a Desktop spin is still planned for the F7 release, I assume? | 11:33 |
| f13 | mether: build system, merger, compose tools, what we actually compose. | 11:33 |
| f13 | wwoods: doubtful. | 11:33 |
| BobJensen | wwoods: I hope Unity will pick up the "targeted spin ball" | 11:34 |
| wwoods | f13: interesting, gotcha | 11:34 |
| wwoods | BobJensen: yeah, the pirutspinner thingy is really damn cool | 11:34 |
| -!- che [i=bleh@redhat/che] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:34 | |
| f13 | wwoods: the leap from the Desktop spin to the more traditional spin is not that far. like 1 extra CD, maybe 2 | 11:34 |
| f13 | wwoods: it doesn't seem very good use to have both spins taking up space | 11:34 |
| wwoods | okay, so targeted testing areas: missing packages, nouveau (?), pata/sata stuff, ..? | 11:35 |
| wwoods | f13: I agree | 11:35 |
| mether | f13: how about just a live cd ? | 11:35 |
| f13 | mether: that is planned | 11:35 |
| f13 | mether: see jeremy's thread to fedora-devel a week or so ago regarding media sets for Fedora 7 | 11:35 |
| mether | right. just wondering whether the plans changed again after that thread | 11:35 |
| f13 | not as far as I know. | 11:36 |
| f13 | although LiveCD is got a lot of people grumbling over what goes on it | 11:36 |
| jeremy | nope, live CD still planned | 11:36 |
| jeremy | (just started a test one building a few minutes ago) | 11:36 |
| che | livecd with install possibilities aswell? | 11:36 |
| jeremy | che: yep | 11:37 |
| mether | jeremy: did the bug related to live cd not booting in many systems get fixed. Could you place a desktop icon on the live cd for hard disk installation | 11:37 |
| wwoods | f13: are the differences between pungi-built and distill-built trees enough that we're going to need to set up our own pungi autobuilder to do proper nightly testing? | 11:37 |
| che | jeremy, thats indeed great cause its multi purpose. | 11:37 |
| jeremy | mether: pata cd drives in general are just kind of problematic right now. although the box at my desk which hadn't been working with test1 finally works now. so hopefully more will work | 11:38 |
| jeremy | mether: placing an icon on the desktop requires some more hunting to figure out a good way to do so | 11:38 |
| f13 | jeremy: did we swap out grub for syslinux on the liveCD? | 11:38 |
| mether | jeremy: that would be very useful since many people didnt realize it had the capability | 11:38 |
| jeremy | f13: not yet; haven't gotten there yet | 11:39 |
| wwoods | while we're talking about this sort of thing - I'd really like to see pup moved somewhere much more obvious in the menus | 11:39 |
| f13 | wwoods: we'll need automated pungi at some point, like right after the merger. | 11:39 |
| dmalcolm | wwoods, f13: have you considered using a Continous Integration server to give more visibilty to the process as we head towards F7 ? e.g. CruiseControl, Hudson, builtbot etc | 11:39 |
| wwoods | well, actually I guess that's not *real* important, assuming puplet and yum-updatesd work | 11:39 |
| f13 | dmalcolm: I've never heard of that. | 11:39 |
| wwoods | but they don't work for me | 11:39 |
| wwoods | dmalcolm: excellent segue! | 11:39 |
| wwoods | heh | 11:39 |
| jeremy | mether: if you want to look at how to programatically add a desktop icon and write up what has to be done, I can make the livecd do so | 11:39 |
| dmalcolm | f13: see e.g. http://cruisecontrol.sourceforge.net/ | 11:39 |
| wwoods | yes, we're going to need to discuss how we can plug pungi into something like that | 11:40 |
| mether | jeremy: how do we place any desktop icons now. I thought that wasnt hard | 11:40 |
| mether | jeremy: is there any progress on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212507 | 11:40 |
| jeremy | mether: default desktop icons are just trash, computer and the homedir -- it's probably _not_ hard, I just don't know exactly what has to be done | 11:41 |
| f13 | wwoods: automating pungi is going to require an extra piece of software, that I think notting is working on, a tool to get a dump of latest packages from a koji tag, make it multilib, and createrepo on it. Then various other tools like pungi, livecd-creator, etc.. can work from the repo. | 11:41 |
| mether | jeremy: ok. I will try and see what other folks are doing for that | 11:42 |
| wwoods | f13: okay, gotcha | 11:43 |
| wwoods | f13: is there a roadmap for this stuff | 11:43 |
| wwoods | ? | 11:43 |
| f13 | wwoods: nope. | 11:43 |
| f13 | wwoods: all sort of dependent upon when koji gets up and running | 11:43 |
| jeremy | mether: thanks. that'll be a big help in getting it done sooner rather than later | 11:43 |
| wwoods | right right. so any automated test system is dependent on an automated compose system | 11:43 |
| wwoods | which itself depends on a build system (i.e. koji) | 11:44 |
| wwoods | so.. Wait And See | 11:44 |
| f13 | yeah :/ | 11:44 |
| wwoods | alas. at least we have an extra month for this stuff. | 11:45 |
| wwoods | okay so: things to tell people to target for testing? | 11:45 |
| mether | jeremy: also there is a relatively long discussions on bz 212507 which has spilled over into fedora-list too. It seems to be a rather common complaint now | 11:45 |
| dmalcolm | f13: CruiseControl is highly pluggable; should be easy to hook it into the world of packages and trees | 11:45 |
| wwoods | missing packages, pata/sata funkiness, play with nouveau.. any other bits we really want people to mess with? | 11:46 |
| f13 | dmalcolm: sounds great. Frankly that will probably be low on my priority list, under things like making sure the compose tool actually works, and things like that (: | 11:46 |
| f13 | wwoods: might be good to ping the Desktop team re things to look at this release | 11:47 |
| f13 | wwoods: ditto baseOS | 11:47 |
| f13 | that type of information would be GREAT for the release announcement. | 11:47 |
| wwoods | f13: gotcha, will do | 11:47 |
| jeremy | mether: the last time I looked at it, everything was working fine for me... but I'll try to find some time to poke at it in the next day or three | 11:47 |
| -!- notting [i=notting@redhat/notting] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:48 | |
| -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser@195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:48 | |
| mether | jeremy: i cant run yum update yet while yum-updatesd is running. | 11:48 |
| wwoods | f13: who should I bug about baseOS stuff? I seem to remember the desktop team lurks around gimpnet | 11:49 |
| f13 | Pete Grainer I think. | 11:49 |
| -!- FrancescoUgolini [n=francesc@host102-194-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Quit"] | 11:49 | |
| -!- FrancescoUgolini [n=francesc@host102-194-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:49 | |
| jeremy | mether: you're not going to be able to run yum while yum-updatesd is _actively_ doing something. there's no way around that. ever. | 11:50 |
| wwoods | anything that's going to be completely obviously broken that I shouldn't even bother looking at? | 11:51 |
| notting | jeremy: 'waiting for transaction lock....' | 11:51 |
| wwoods | i.e. does ppc work? (should I even expect it to?) | 11:51 |
| f13 | wwoods: I'm trying to get it to compose. | 11:51 |
| f13 | wwoods: I have no idea if it will work. the compose blew up for some reason. | 11:51 |
| mether | jeremy: yum-updates seems to locking all the time. I never managed to run yum when the daemon was enabled at all | 11:52 |
| f13 | wwoods: Perhaps pay close attention to package deps. Not only is pungi doing depsolving via yum better, but yum has new depsolving code too. | 11:52 |
| f13 | mether: I've never been able to duplicate that. You'll have to strace your yumupdatesd to see where it is stuck. | 11:53 |
| wwoods | jeremy: are there any plans for pup/pirut multithreading work (so the GUI doesn't hang while the backend does Stuff)? | 11:54 |
| jeremy | wwoods: halfline had the start of a patch that he threw in bugzilla... but verifying correctness and that we're not going to eat rpmdb's at that point is very very critical | 11:55 |
| -!- daMaestro [n=jon@fedora/damaestro] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:55 | |
| jeremy | wwoods: and things like cd support, the depsolving stuff and the livecd are taking more of my time right now | 11:55 |
| mether | what is the dep solving stuff that you are referring to? | 11:56 |
| wwoods | yeah, would you mind expanding a bit on the depsolving changes/ | 11:56 |
| jeremy | we moved all of the depsolving with yum to be done inside of yum instead of using rpmlib | 11:57 |
| jeremy | needed so that we could have a chance of actually speeding things up as well as avoiding the need for downloading headers | 11:57 |
| jeremy | (downloading headers to do a depsolve if you're installing from CD is a quick road to much much pain) | 11:58 |
| mether | yum used to read the info directly from the rpm before it switched to using headers. is it going back now? | 11:58 |
| jeremy | mether: ummm... we've been doing byte-range grabs of the headers from the packages themselves for a long time (since switching to the metadata stuff) | 11:59 |
| mether | so why is it downloading headers at all | 12:00 |
| f13 | mether: that _is_ the header | 12:00 |
| notting | jeremy: does urlgrabber do open/lseek/read to do byterange on file:/// :) | 12:00 |
| f13 | mether: the header was needed for rpmlib | 12:00 |
| jeremy | mether: because we've had to download a header to pack into a transaction set so that rpmlib could do the ts check | 12:00 |
| wwoods | so now yum doesn't need to download headers anymore? badass | 12:01 |
| jeremy | notting: iirc, yes | 12:01 |
| jeremy | wwoods: yep! | 12:01 |
| -!- couf_afk is now known as couf | 12:01 | |
| wwoods | was this the blocker to media + 3rd-party-repo installs? | 12:01 |
| f13 | part of it | 12:01 |
| -!- Topic for #fedora-meeting: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel -- Meetings often get logged -- Next meeting: FESCo on 20070222 at 18:00 UTC | 12:01 | |
| -!- Topic set by thl [] [Thu Feb 22 00:47:21 2007] | 12:01 | |
| notting | but the ordering thing is or is not fixed? | 12:02 |
| -!- kanarip [n=kanarip@fedora/kanarip] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 12:02 | |
| jeremy | notting: which ordering thing? | 12:02 |
| notting | jeremy: order so that glibc is ordered to be installed from base, but not installed until it's downloaded from updates later | 12:03 |
| jeremy | notting: not dealt with at all | 12:03 |
| -!- craigt [n=cthomas@static-68-236-219-35.nwrk.east.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 12:04 | |
| wwoods | that's a blocker to installing from media + updates, I take it? | 12:04 |
| jeremy | wwoods: yep | 12:04 |
| wwoods | planned feature for F7? is there anything we can do to help? | 12:05 |
| notting | wwoods: well, it's a blocker to installs from media + updates working sanely. i don't think the installer will crash | 12:05 |
| wwoods | notting: ah, right | 12:06 |
| f13 | its lunch time now | 12:06 |
| wwoods | indeed | 12:06 |
| jeremy | wwoods: accepting patches! | 12:06 |
| jeremy | wwoods: that or a time machine | 12:06 |
| jeremy | and f13 is right, it is lunch time :) | 12:06 |
| jeremy | what happened to quick and just about testing? ;) | 12:07 |
| wwoods | lemme track down hgranger, think she's got one | 12:07 |
| wwoods | heh. tangent! | 12:07 |
| wwoods | anyway, now I know what to test and why to test it | 12:07 |
| wwoods | thanks for your time, folks | 12:07 |
| f13 | man, I"m going to be sooo pleased if ppc just utterly fails to compose. | 12:07 |
| wwoods | anyone else have test2-related stuff (building it, installing it, etc.) they want to bring up? | 12:08 |
| notting | where's the test trees? :) | 12:08 |
| wwoods | notting: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/BuildingISOs | 12:08 |
| f13 | notting: reducto for now. | 12:08 |
| f13 | notting: nothing I feel good about putting anywhere else. | 12:09 |
| notting | f13: are your other machines 'ad' and 'absurdum'? | 12:09 |
| * wwoods hoping for peanut, birdgirl, mentok, etc. | 12:09 | |
| -!- giallu [n=giallu@81-174-26-126.f5.ngi.it] has quit ["Leaving"] | 12:09 | |
| wwoods | okay, if there's nothing else.. this meeting is over | 12:11 |
| wwoods | poelcat, dmalcolm: we'll talk RHTS stuff later on | 12:12 |
| notting | wwoods: is snake running yet? | 12:13 |
| mether | wwoods: should we have regular bug triaging sessions | 12:15 |
| notting | mether: well, i don't think there's a real argument *against* bug triage | 12:15 |
| mether | it is clear that it wont happen on its own though | 12:16 |
| wwoods | notting: not quite, need to redo the objects to instantiate off the .treeinfo data instead of the magical fake xml | 12:17 |
| wwoods | I'm hoping I'll have it working today or tomorrow | 12:17 |
| wwoods | mether: we definitely should - David Neilsen has talked about running them | 12:17 |
| * wwoods dives head-first into snakeland | 12:22 | |
| -!- wwoods [i=wwoods@nat/redhat/x-9edef4bb143708f8] has left #fedora-meeting [] | 12:22 | |
| --- Log closed Thu Feb 22 15:55:57 2007 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!