--- Log opened Thu Feb 22 11:16:42 2007
wwoodsI apologize for mixing up the times. Who's here for Fedora QA?11:17
wwoodsWe're just going to talk real quickly about Test211:17
FrancescoUgolinitry to ping them11:19
* dmalcolm is here for Fedora QA11:20
wwoodswell, anyway. dmalcolm: what are you up to wrt. test2?11:21
wwoodsI know we have a meeting later today to talk about RHTS stuff11:21
dmalcolmwwoods: that was it for me11:21
wwoodswell, okay then, we'll talk about that stuff later11:22
wwoodspoelcat: are you going to be working on test2 or did you just want to talk rhts / automation stuff?11:24
* f13 is here.11:24
f13by accident more than anything11:25
wwoodssucker! you're stuck here now.11:25
wwoodsso I haven't yet tried building a test2 tree - will there be public ones before the release?11:26
-!- jeremy [i=iiiiiiii@nat/redhat/x-d46083791f29e769] has joined #fedora-meeting11:26
wwoodsalso: filing bugs for missing packages - file against distribution or what?11:26
f13not sure on public trees11:26
f13I could maybe push something to the /projects/ space on download.fedora.redhat.com, but that only gets mirrored to our roundrobin, not to all mirrors11:27
wwoodspeople have been asking about having nightly isos built11:27
f13and since its DVD size...11:27
wwoodsI gave a handwavy answer about disk space and bandwidth and mirrors11:27
f13wwoods: the people asking about that clearly don't understand how rawhide can be used.11:27
f13wwoods: yes, missing packages file against distribution11:28
wwoodsthe counter-point is for people with flaky connections - downloading an iso can be easily resumed11:28
wwoodsan installation.. not so much11:28
poelcatwwoods: i can help with test211:28
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f13wwoods: rsync the tree (:11:28
f13wwoods: even easier to resume11:28
wwoodsf13: indeed! although the tree is much larger than e.g. CD1+@11:29
wwoodserr 1+211:29
BobJensenwwoods: More people than just mether?11:29
wwoodsBobJensen: I think someone else mentioned it to me - but maybe11:29
BobJensenOK just checking11:29
f13also, note, that I'll be changing the name from "classic" to somethign else.11:30
metherok. so who is dragging by name in the mud11:30
f13apparently classic was a term used for humor effect and not to be used for the spin.11:30
BobJensenmether: Not me, Just seeking clarification11:30
wwoodseither way, the fact remains that there's not a clear "here's some ways you can do installations without needing ISO images"11:31
wwoodsIf someone's got references for that stuff, let me know - I'll be condensing that info into a QA wiki page11:31
f13wwoods: isn't htat on the Releases/Rawhide page?11:31
metherf13: is it clear yet whether we are doing the everything spin or whether classic would be the first dvd in the everything dvd set11:31
f13mether: nope.11:31
f13mether: It's pretty clear that Test2 will not have an everything spin.11:31
metherwwoods: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Testing. IMO releases/rawhide is redundant11:31
wwoodsf13: that's only for doing http/ftp installs from the mirrors11:31
f13wwoods: so it can be expanded upon11:32
wwoodsTesting covers the same deal, so yeah, I'll add some stuff to Testing11:32
f13mether: as to whether or not the Everything spin will compliment any other spin thats pretty up in the air too.  Not much time, far more important things to accomplish.11:32
metherso where is the focus currently11:33
wwoodsf13: are we doing 'Classic' in addition to Desktop or as a replacement?11:33
f13wwoods: perhaps a good seperation between explaining what rawhide is vs how to test it and then some cross linking between Releases/ and Test11:33
f13wwoods: replacement.11:33
wwoodsf13: gotcha. a Desktop spin is still planned for the F7 release, I assume?11:33
f13mether: build system, merger, compose tools, what we actually compose.11:33
f13wwoods: doubtful.11:33
BobJensenwwoods: I hope Unity will pick up the "targeted spin ball"11:34
wwoodsf13: interesting, gotcha11:34
wwoodsBobJensen: yeah, the pirutspinner thingy is really damn cool11:34
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f13wwoods: the leap from the Desktop spin to the more traditional spin is not that far.  like 1 extra CD, maybe 211:34
f13wwoods: it doesn't seem very good use to have both spins taking up space11:34
wwoodsokay, so targeted testing areas: missing packages, nouveau (?), pata/sata stuff, ..?11:35
wwoodsf13: I agree11:35
metherf13: how about just a live cd ?11:35
f13mether: that is planned11:35
f13mether: see jeremy's thread to fedora-devel a week or so ago regarding media sets for Fedora 711:35
metherright. just wondering whether the plans changed again after that thread11:35
f13not as far as I know.11:36
f13although LiveCD is got a lot of people grumbling over what goes on it11:36
jeremynope, live CD still planned11:36
jeremy(just started a test one building a few minutes ago)11:36
chelivecd with install possibilities aswell?11:36
jeremyche: yep11:37
metherjeremy: did the bug related to live cd not booting in many systems get fixed. Could you place a desktop icon on the live cd for hard disk installation11:37
wwoodsf13: are the differences between pungi-built and distill-built trees enough that we're going to need to set up our own pungi autobuilder to do proper nightly testing?11:37
chejeremy, thats indeed great cause its multi purpose.11:37
jeremymether: pata cd drives in general are just kind of problematic right now.  although the box at my desk which hadn't been working with test1 finally works now.  so hopefully more will work11:38
jeremymether: placing an icon on the desktop requires some more hunting to figure out a good way to do so11:38
f13jeremy: did we swap out grub for syslinux on the liveCD?11:38
metherjeremy: that would be very useful since many people didnt realize it had the capability11:38
jeremyf13: not yet; haven't gotten there yet11:39
wwoodswhile we're talking about this sort of thing - I'd really like to see pup moved somewhere much more obvious in the menus11:39
f13wwoods: we'll need automated pungi at some point, like right after the merger.11:39
dmalcolmwwoods, f13: have you considered using a Continous Integration server to give more visibilty to the process as we head towards F7 ?  e.g. CruiseControl, Hudson, builtbot etc11:39
wwoodswell, actually I guess that's not *real* important, assuming puplet and yum-updatesd work 11:39
f13dmalcolm: I've never heard of that.11:39
wwoodsbut they don't work for me11:39
wwoodsdmalcolm: excellent segue!11:39
jeremymether: if you want to look at how to programatically add a desktop icon and write up what has to be done, I can make the livecd do so11:39
dmalcolmf13: see e.g. http://cruisecontrol.sourceforge.net/11:39
wwoodsyes, we're going to need to discuss how we can plug pungi into something like that 11:40
metherjeremy: how do we place any desktop icons now. I thought that wasnt hard11:40
metherjeremy: is there any progress on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21250711:40
jeremymether: default desktop icons are just trash, computer and the homedir -- it's probably _not_ hard, I just don't know exactly what has to be done11:41
f13wwoods: automating pungi is going to require an extra piece of software, that I think notting is working on, a tool to get a dump of latest packages from a koji tag, make it multilib, and createrepo on it.  Then various other tools like pungi, livecd-creator, etc.. can work from the repo.11:41
metherjeremy: ok. I will try and see what other folks are doing for that11:42
wwoodsf13: okay, gotcha11:43
wwoodsf13: is there a roadmap for this stuff11:43
f13wwoods: nope.11:43
f13wwoods: all sort of dependent upon when koji gets up and running11:43
jeremymether: thanks.  that'll be a big help in getting it done sooner rather than later11:43
wwoodsright right. so any automated test system is dependent on an automated compose system11:43
wwoodswhich itself depends on a build system (i.e. koji)11:44
wwoodsso.. Wait And See11:44
f13yeah :/11:44
wwoodsalas. at least we have an extra month for this stuff.11:45
wwoodsokay so: things to tell people to target for testing?11:45
metherjeremy: also there is a relatively long discussions on bz 212507 which has spilled over into fedora-list too. It seems to be a rather common complaint now11:45
dmalcolmf13: CruiseControl is highly pluggable; should be easy to hook it into the world of packages and trees11:45
wwoodsmissing packages, pata/sata funkiness, play with nouveau.. any other bits we really want people to mess with?11:46
f13dmalcolm: sounds great.  Frankly that will probably be low on my priority list, under things like making sure the compose tool actually works, and things like that (:11:46
f13wwoods: might be good to ping the Desktop team re things to look at this release11:47
f13wwoods: ditto baseOS11:47
f13that type of information would be GREAT for the release announcement.11:47
wwoodsf13: gotcha, will do11:47
jeremymether: the last time I looked at it, everything was working fine for me...  but I'll try to find some time to poke at it in the next day or three11:47
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metherjeremy: i cant run yum update yet while yum-updatesd is running.11:48
wwoodsf13: who should I bug about baseOS stuff? I seem to remember the desktop team lurks around gimpnet11:49
f13Pete Grainer I think.11:49
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jeremymether: you're not going to be able to run yum while yum-updatesd is _actively_ doing something.  there's no way around that.  ever.11:50
wwoodsanything that's going to be completely obviously broken that I shouldn't even bother looking at?11:51
nottingjeremy: 'waiting for transaction lock....'11:51
wwoodsi.e. does ppc work? (should I even expect it to?)11:51
f13wwoods: I'm trying to get it to compose.11:51
f13wwoods: I have no idea if it will work.  the compose blew up for some reason.11:51
metherjeremy: yum-updates seems to locking all the time. I never managed to run yum when the daemon was enabled at all11:52
f13wwoods: Perhaps pay close attention to package deps.  Not only is pungi doing depsolving via yum better, but yum has new depsolving code too.11:52
f13mether: I've never been able to duplicate that.  You'll have to strace your yumupdatesd to see where it is stuck.11:53
wwoodsjeremy: are there any plans for pup/pirut multithreading work (so the GUI doesn't hang while the backend does Stuff)?11:54
jeremywwoods: halfline had the start of a patch that he threw in bugzilla...  but verifying correctness and that we're not going to eat rpmdb's at that point is very very critical11:55
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jeremywwoods: and things like cd support, the depsolving stuff and the livecd are taking more of my time right now11:55
metherwhat is the dep solving stuff that you are referring to?11:56
wwoodsyeah, would you mind expanding a bit on the depsolving changes/11:56
jeremywe moved all of the depsolving with yum to be done inside of yum instead of using rpmlib11:57
jeremyneeded so that we could have a chance of actually speeding things up as well as avoiding the need for downloading headers11:57
jeremy(downloading headers to do a depsolve if you're installing from CD is a quick road to much much pain)11:58
metheryum used to read the info directly from the rpm before it switched to using headers. is it going back now?11:58
jeremymether: ummm... we've been doing byte-range grabs of the headers from the packages themselves for a long time (since switching to the metadata stuff)11:59
metherso why is it downloading headers at all12:00
f13mether: that _is_ the header12:00
nottingjeremy: does urlgrabber do open/lseek/read to do byterange on file:/// :)12:00
f13mether: the header was needed for rpmlib12:00
jeremymether: because we've had to download a header to pack into a transaction set so that rpmlib could do the ts check12:00
wwoodsso now yum doesn't need to download headers anymore? badass12:01
jeremynotting: iirc, yes12:01
jeremywwoods: yep!12:01
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wwoodswas this the blocker to media + 3rd-party-repo installs?12:01
f13part of it12:01
-!- Topic for #fedora-meeting: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel -- Meetings often get logged -- Next meeting: FESCo on 20070222 at 18:00 UTC12:01
-!- Topic set by thl [] [Thu Feb 22 00:47:21 2007]12:01
nottingbut the ordering thing is or is not fixed?12:02
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jeremynotting: which ordering thing?12:02
nottingjeremy: order so that glibc is ordered to be installed from base, but not installed until it's downloaded from updates later12:03
jeremynotting: not dealt with at all12:03
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wwoodsthat's a blocker to installing from media + updates, I take it?12:04
jeremywwoods: yep12:04
wwoodsplanned feature for F7? is there anything we can do to help?12:05
nottingwwoods: well, it's a blocker to installs from media + updates working sanely. i don't think the installer will crash12:05
wwoodsnotting: ah, right12:06
f13its lunch time now12:06
jeremywwoods: accepting patches!12:06
jeremywwoods: that or a time machine12:06
jeremyand f13 is right, it is lunch time :)12:06
jeremywhat happened to quick and just about testing? ;)12:07
wwoodslemme track down hgranger, think she's got one12:07
wwoodsheh. tangent!12:07
wwoodsanyway, now I know what to test and why to test it12:07
wwoodsthanks for your time, folks12:07
f13man, I"m going to be sooo pleased if ppc just utterly fails to compose.12:07
wwoodsanyone else have test2-related stuff (building it, installing it, etc.) they want to bring up?12:08
nottingwhere's the test trees? :)12:08
wwoodsnotting: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/7/BuildingISOs12:08
f13notting: reducto for now.12:08
f13notting: nothing I feel good about putting anywhere else.12:09
nottingf13: are your other machines 'ad' and 'absurdum'?12:09
* wwoods hoping for peanut, birdgirl, mentok, etc.12:09
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wwoodsokay, if there's nothing else.. this meeting is over12:11
wwoodspoelcat, dmalcolm: we'll talk RHTS stuff later on12:12
nottingwwoods: is snake running yet?12:13
metherwwoods: should we have regular bug triaging sessions12:15
nottingmether: well, i don't think there's a real argument *against* bug triage12:15
metherit is clear that it wont happen on its own though12:16
wwoodsnotting: not quite, need to redo the objects to instantiate off the .treeinfo data instead of the magical fake xml12:17
wwoodsI'm hoping I'll have it working today or tomorrow12:17
wwoodsmether: we definitely should - David Neilsen has talked about running them12:17
* wwoods dives head-first into snakeland12:22
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 22 15:55:57 2007

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