--- Log opened Wed Dec 12 10:01:52 2007
wwoodsf13 Lovechild mether rdieter nirik: ping10:03
wwoodsso I don't have anything pressing on the agenda10:05
wwoodsf13: what was it we were going to discuss?10:05
wwoodsanyway. first, tools stuff10:06
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | tools10:06
wwoodsjlaska has been packaging up SNAKE (http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake) and working on the docs and such10:07
wwoodsI've submitted python-bugzilla for review, and it was just approved, so that'll also be available shortly10:07
wwoodsthose two packages are used by the rawhide dashboard page (http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html, probably moving soon)10:08
wwoodsbut soon we should have at least *some* automagic testing of rawhide trees10:08
wwoodsyay for that!10:08
wwoodsOh. Bug triage sucks - and will continue to suck unless we have better tools and a point system or something to help motivate people10:10
wwoodsbut I've been talking with ldimaggi_ for a while about QA stuff10:10
ldimaggi_wwoods, Good Morning everyone!10:10
wwoodsright now my opinion is that making sure rawhide / updates are solid is more valuable10:11
ldimaggi_glad to be here...10:11
wwoodsthan making triage easier/funner. once a bug is filed, it's already out the door 10:11
wwoodsit'd be better to keep a lot of bugs from getting out the door first10:11
wwoodswhich will make triaging easier10:11
wwoodsso, some fairly simple automated testing is in order for fedora updates and rawhide10:12
wwoodsso that's what I'm working on.10:12
poelcatwwoods: what kind of tools are you thinking would make triage better?10:13
wwoodswell, infrastructure stuff to keep track of who's doing what, who's doing a good job. scorekeeping stuff to make things interesting10:14
wwoods(and let us give credit to the best of the bug triagers)10:14
poelcatwwoods: could borrow such things from another project?10:14
wwoodsIt'd be nice to have a client-side tool that talked to bugzilla/bodhi/koji/pkgdb10:14
wwoodspoelcat: depends on how we want it implemented10:15
wwoodsat this point we *can* use the GNOME stuff if we're willing to put scripts on BZ itself10:15
wwoods(previously we couldn't use their pointkeeping system 'cuz it used mysql-specific stuff)10:15
wwoodsI'd probably want to clean it up so it's a nice modular plugin (and was easier to configure weights for various actions)10:17
wwoodsand have it able to send data elsewhere, so if we do similar scorekeeping in bodhi/koji/etc we can gather all that data in one central place10:18
wwoodsbut, again, that's stuff I want to do *after* getting some smoketesting in place 10:18
wwoodsunless I find someone who's willing to spearhead the effort themselves10:18
wwoodsbut yes - scorekeeping and a cool gtk-based bug searching/triaging app10:19
wwoodswould be awesome. 10:19
wwoodsanyway, there was something about bugzilla policy that f13 wanted to discuss, but I don't think he's here10:20
wwoodsso that discussion will be moved to -test-list (and/or -devel-list)10:20
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc.10:21
wwoodsoh, one other thing. I'm seeing more and more audio bugs where the suggested solution is "remove pulseaudio"10:22
wwoodswhich kinda sucks.10:22
wwoodsIn theory, PA improvements were on the schedule for F9 to better integrate it with the system10:23
rdieterin fairness, it's a temporary workaround oftentimes, but the fundamental issues should still be addressed.10:23
wwoodsAll people *really* need to do is remove alsa-plugins-pulseaudio and PA will magically stop being the default.10:24
wwoodsbut we have to keep an eye out for bugs about this junk and make sure Lennart addresses the big ones10:24
wwoodsrdieter: how's KDE4 stuff going?10:26
rdieterwwoods: rawhide import is pretty much done.10:26
rdieterwwoods: now we need to actually start using it, and testing it out, polishing, etc...10:26
wwoodsright on. good to hear!10:27
rdieterand dealing with a few pkgs here and there that still contain kde(3) deps, that are now awol. :)10:27
wwoodsAre there likely to be any features in F9 that will change major desktop behaviors (like PA did) that we need to keep an eye out for?10:28
wwoodsI have a feeling PolicyKit could prove slightly disruptive for non-GNOME/KDE envs10:28
wwoodsanyway, that's something to keep in the backs of your heads10:29
wwoodsthat's all. Any other business to discuss?10:29
rdieterwwoods: I forget, is another "bug day" coming soon?10:31
wwoodsThere isn't one planned right now10:32
wwoodsI was kind of disheartened - spent an entire 8-hour day working on it and I closed maybe 10 bugs10:32
wwoodsand got into some fierce arguments10:33
rdieterhee, if it makes you feel better, a closed a whole load of old kde ones...10:33
wwoodsthat's good!10:33
wwoodsRight now I'm not convinced that Bug Days are a good use of my time.10:33
rdieterif more folks don't show up to participate, you're prob right10:35
wwoodswith more people (and once we've got some smoketest stuff going to catch the obvious stuff earlier) it would probably be very useful10:35
wwoodsbut I think we have bigger problems10:35
wwoodslike broken rawhide and broken updates10:36
wwoodsif someone would like to plan a Bug Day, or wants to request a Bug Day to help triage a particular set of bugs10:37
wwoodsI'd be totally behind that10:37
jeremywwoods: I'm hoping to have a live image for testing a few installer related things by the first of next week10:37
wwoodsoh nice. 10:38
wwoodssomeday we need to figure out a good way of running automated tests on newly-produced live images10:39
wwoodskvm's probably the easiest way though10:40
jeremyyou could pretty easily do boot it, get a screenshot to make sure the desktop came up10:41
jeremymore than that becomes tricky10:41
wwoodspossibly we'll want some way of injecting commands from the boot line, like kickstart10:41
wwoodsor similar10:42
jeremyhow do you plan on injecting commands into the bootloader, though?10:42
wwoodspull the kernel/initrd/squashfs off the image and boot it from system GRUB?10:43
jeremyyou've now managed to avoid testing a lot of the livecd specific bits10:44
wwoodstrue. :/10:44
wwoodswell, somethin' to think about. I don't have an answer right now.10:45
wwoodslet me know when you've got images, though10:45
wwoodseveryone loves a livecd10:45
jeremywell, live-just-more-than-a-cd right now, but yeah10:46
jeremy(some stupid deps have appeared... filed bugs last week about them)10:47
* rdieter likes livethingy10:47
wwoodslivecd, livedvd, liveusb, liveipod.. nah. just call it "livethingy"10:48
wwoodsokay, anything else?10:48
jeremyliveipod is hard -- current ones are 2048 byte sectors which our bootloaders don't deal with10:48
wwoodsreally? bogus.10:49
wwoodsstupid PC BIOSes caring about "sectors"10:50
wwoodsokay, let's call this done. Thanks for your time, folks.10:51
* wwoods coffeeeee10:51
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: /topic Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule10:52
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule10:52
--- Log closed Wed Dec 12 10:52:41 2007

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