| --- Log opened Wed Dec 12 10:01:52 2007 | ||
| wwoods | f13 Lovechild mether rdieter nirik: ping | 10:03 |
|---|---|---|
| rdieter | yo | 10:04 |
| wwoods | howdy. | 10:05 |
| wwoods | so I don't have anything pressing on the agenda | 10:05 |
| wwoods | f13: what was it we were going to discuss? | 10:05 |
| wwoods | anyway. first, tools stuff | 10:06 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | tools | 10:06 | |
| wwoods | jlaska has been packaging up SNAKE (http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake) and working on the docs and such | 10:07 |
| wwoods | I've submitted python-bugzilla for review, and it was just approved, so that'll also be available shortly | 10:07 |
| wwoods | (http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/python-bugzilla) | 10:07 |
| wwoods | those two packages are used by the rawhide dashboard page (http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html, probably moving soon) | 10:08 |
| wwoods | but soon we should have at least *some* automagic testing of rawhide trees | 10:08 |
| wwoods | yay for that! | 10:08 |
| wwoods | Oh. Bug triage sucks - and will continue to suck unless we have better tools and a point system or something to help motivate people | 10:10 |
| wwoods | but I've been talking with ldimaggi_ for a while about QA stuff | 10:10 |
| ldimaggi_ | wwoods, Good Morning everyone! | 10:10 |
| wwoods | right now my opinion is that making sure rawhide / updates are solid is more valuable | 10:11 |
| ldimaggi_ | glad to be here... | 10:11 |
| wwoods | than making triage easier/funner. once a bug is filed, it's already out the door | 10:11 |
| wwoods | it'd be better to keep a lot of bugs from getting out the door first | 10:11 |
| wwoods | which will make triaging easier | 10:11 |
| wwoods | so, some fairly simple automated testing is in order for fedora updates and rawhide | 10:12 |
| wwoods | so that's what I'm working on. | 10:12 |
| poelcat | wwoods: what kind of tools are you thinking would make triage better? | 10:13 |
| wwoods | well, infrastructure stuff to keep track of who's doing what, who's doing a good job. scorekeeping stuff to make things interesting | 10:14 |
| wwoods | (and let us give credit to the best of the bug triagers) | 10:14 |
| poelcat | wwoods: could borrow such things from another project? | 10:14 |
| wwoods | It'd be nice to have a client-side tool that talked to bugzilla/bodhi/koji/pkgdb | 10:14 |
| wwoods | poelcat: depends on how we want it implemented | 10:15 |
| wwoods | at this point we *can* use the GNOME stuff if we're willing to put scripts on BZ itself | 10:15 |
| wwoods | (previously we couldn't use their pointkeeping system 'cuz it used mysql-specific stuff) | 10:15 |
| wwoods | I'd probably want to clean it up so it's a nice modular plugin (and was easier to configure weights for various actions) | 10:17 |
| wwoods | and have it able to send data elsewhere, so if we do similar scorekeeping in bodhi/koji/etc we can gather all that data in one central place | 10:18 |
| wwoods | but, again, that's stuff I want to do *after* getting some smoketesting in place | 10:18 |
| wwoods | unless I find someone who's willing to spearhead the effort themselves | 10:18 |
| wwoods | but yes - scorekeeping and a cool gtk-based bug searching/triaging app | 10:19 |
| wwoods | would be awesome. | 10:19 |
| wwoods | anyway, there was something about bugzilla policy that f13 wanted to discuss, but I don't think he's here | 10:20 |
| wwoods | so that discussion will be moved to -test-list (and/or -devel-list) | 10:20 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc. | 10:21 | |
| wwoods | oh, one other thing. I'm seeing more and more audio bugs where the suggested solution is "remove pulseaudio" | 10:22 |
| wwoods | which kinda sucks. | 10:22 |
| wwoods | In theory, PA improvements were on the schedule for F9 to better integrate it with the system | 10:23 |
| rdieter | in fairness, it's a temporary workaround oftentimes, but the fundamental issues should still be addressed. | 10:23 |
| wwoods | right | 10:23 |
| wwoods | All people *really* need to do is remove alsa-plugins-pulseaudio and PA will magically stop being the default. | 10:24 |
| wwoods | but we have to keep an eye out for bugs about this junk and make sure Lennart addresses the big ones | 10:24 |
| wwoods | rdieter: how's KDE4 stuff going? | 10:26 |
| rdieter | wwoods: rawhide import is pretty much done. | 10:26 |
| rdieter | wwoods: now we need to actually start using it, and testing it out, polishing, etc... | 10:26 |
| wwoods | right on. good to hear! | 10:27 |
| rdieter | and dealing with a few pkgs here and there that still contain kde(3) deps, that are now awol. :) | 10:27 |
| wwoods | Are there likely to be any features in F9 that will change major desktop behaviors (like PA did) that we need to keep an eye out for? | 10:28 |
| wwoods | I have a feeling PolicyKit could prove slightly disruptive for non-GNOME/KDE envs | 10:28 |
| wwoods | anyway, that's something to keep in the backs of your heads | 10:29 |
| wwoods | that's all. Any other business to discuss? | 10:29 |
| rdieter | wwoods: I forget, is another "bug day" coming soon? | 10:31 |
| wwoods | There isn't one planned right now | 10:32 |
| rdieter | ok | 10:32 |
| wwoods | I was kind of disheartened - spent an entire 8-hour day working on it and I closed maybe 10 bugs | 10:32 |
| wwoods | and got into some fierce arguments | 10:33 |
| rdieter | hee, if it makes you feel better, a closed a whole load of old kde ones... | 10:33 |
| wwoods | that's good! | 10:33 |
| wwoods | Right now I'm not convinced that Bug Days are a good use of my time. | 10:33 |
| rdieter | if more folks don't show up to participate, you're prob right | 10:35 |
| wwoods | with more people (and once we've got some smoketest stuff going to catch the obvious stuff earlier) it would probably be very useful | 10:35 |
| wwoods | but I think we have bigger problems | 10:35 |
| wwoods | like broken rawhide and broken updates | 10:36 |
| wwoods | if someone would like to plan a Bug Day, or wants to request a Bug Day to help triage a particular set of bugs | 10:37 |
| wwoods | I'd be totally behind that | 10:37 |
| jeremy | wwoods: I'm hoping to have a live image for testing a few installer related things by the first of next week | 10:37 |
| wwoods | oh nice. | 10:38 |
| wwoods | someday we need to figure out a good way of running automated tests on newly-produced live images | 10:39 |
| wwoods | kvm's probably the easiest way though | 10:40 |
| jeremy | you could pretty easily do boot it, get a screenshot to make sure the desktop came up | 10:41 |
| jeremy | more than that becomes tricky | 10:41 |
| wwoods | possibly we'll want some way of injecting commands from the boot line, like kickstart | 10:41 |
| wwoods | runscript=[url] | 10:41 |
| wwoods | or similar | 10:42 |
| jeremy | how do you plan on injecting commands into the bootloader, though? | 10:42 |
| wwoods | pull the kernel/initrd/squashfs off the image and boot it from system GRUB? | 10:43 |
| jeremy | you've now managed to avoid testing a lot of the livecd specific bits | 10:44 |
| wwoods | heh | 10:44 |
| wwoods | true. :/ | 10:44 |
| wwoods | well, somethin' to think about. I don't have an answer right now. | 10:45 |
| wwoods | let me know when you've got images, though | 10:45 |
| wwoods | everyone loves a livecd | 10:45 |
| jeremy | well, live-just-more-than-a-cd right now, but yeah | 10:46 |
| wwoods | liveimage | 10:47 |
| jeremy | (some stupid deps have appeared... filed bugs last week about them) | 10:47 |
| wwoods | livethingy | 10:47 |
| * rdieter likes livethingy | 10:47 | |
| wwoods | livecd, livedvd, liveusb, liveipod.. nah. just call it "livethingy" | 10:48 |
| wwoods | okay, anything else? | 10:48 |
| jeremy | liveipod is hard -- current ones are 2048 byte sectors which our bootloaders don't deal with | 10:48 |
| wwoods | really? bogus. | 10:49 |
| wwoods | stupid PC BIOSes caring about "sectors" | 10:50 |
| wwoods | okay, let's call this done. Thanks for your time, folks. | 10:51 |
| * wwoods coffeeeee | 10:51 | |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: /topic Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule | 10:52 | |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule | 10:52 | |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 12 10:52:41 2007 | ||
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