--- Log opened Wed Mar 12 11:02:17 2008
f13woo DST :/11:02
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | meeting init11:02
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* jlaska lurks11:05
jwbomar, meeting time11:05
wwoodsokay so11:06
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omarjwb, k11:06
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | F9Beta blocker bugs11:06
wwoodsthat's the f9beta tracker list11:06
f13fully of tears11:07
wwoodsI wouldn't necessarily consider them all blockers11:07
f13yea, we need to cull the list11:07
wwoodsshould we split off a Beta Target, or just move stuff that doesn't meet blocker criteria to F9Target11:07
f13just move it off11:08
f13I purposfully never named the pre-release stuff with "Target" or "Blocker" in it.  They're just trackers of things that would be nice to fix for beta11:09
f13but things like the doxygen, totally not a beta issue11:09
wwoodsI think we can say as general policy:11:09
wwoodspre-freeze, the tracker bug is for issues we want fixed11:09
wwoodspost-freeze, it's blockers-only11:09
wwoodsstill no update to mkinitrd, which means the default install still doesn't boot11:10
f13what fun11:10
mceplf13: isn't that doxygen thing problem for multilib?11:10
f13mcepl: yes, but it's not critical.11:11
f13mcepl: and it may already be fixed, waiting on input from the reporter11:11
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wwoodslessee: jeremy / notting / mether / nirik / rdieter / Lovechild ping11:12
mceplthen I would reconsider https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=377031 -- it is on savage videocard which almost nobody uses11:12
buggbotBug 377031: medium, low, ---, Adam Jackson, ASSIGNED , graphical install image is centered but mouse input is not11:12
wwoodsmcepl: yeah, let's run through the list real quick11:12
wwoodsI agree that one can be droppoed11:12
wwoods429713: dmraid devices not seen as dmraid11:13
wwoods..needs retest11:13
wwoodsand, honestly, that should be a blocker11:14
wwoodsalthough it missed F9a and nobody screamed11:14
wwoods(that's not true.. a few people noticed)11:14
f13I noticed11:15
f13I'll be testing that today11:15
wwoodsf13: thanks11:15
wwoodsBug 429758: Cannot upgrade F7 system with F9 alpha11:15
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=429758 high, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , Cannot upgrade F7 system with F9 alpha11:15
wwoodsoh hai buggbot11:15
wwoodswe don't have a good reproducer for this problem, which is why it's lingered11:15
wwoodslow priority (upgrading from f7 and *fc5*? seriously)11:16
wwoodsbut we should try to get a reproducer11:16
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wwoodsmaybe I'll actually set priority on the bugs on the tracker list11:17
wwoodsimagine that!11:17
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wwoodsso yeah, this one will stay 'low'11:17
wwoodsoh wait. I guess it shows 'severity' on the dep list11:18
wwoodswish it showed priority. blarg. anyway11:18
f13you can have it show if you view as list11:18
f13custom view and all that11:18
wwoodsah yes11:18
wwoods[RFE]: Please let KDE users also use gnome-packagekit11:19
wwoodspriority: urgent11:19
wwoodsyeah. sure.11:19
wwoodsanyway, sorry, getting back on target11:19
mceplwhy? isn't there kde-packagekit?11:19
mcepl(or what is the name)11:19
poelcatwwoods: want me to try and repro 429758?11:19
poelcatand if I can't... close it?11:20
tibbsAlthough there is a QT interface.  QPackageKit, I think.  No idea how far along it is.11:20
uosiuhi all11:20
tibbsThe gnome one would work fine if it wasn't hidden from KDE for no reason.11:20
poelcatwwoods i'll just do an f7 install--fully updated and then try to install latest rawhide?11:20
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wwoodspoelcat: try it, sure, but if you can't reproduce it that's no proof that it doesn't exist11:20
wwoodsobviously there's some other problem going on11:20
wwoodsmismatched labels or some such11:20
uosiuI want to ask- EMEA region- what is it? Does it contains Europe?11:20
wwoodsthat we haven't figured out yet11:20
wwoodsI think it stands for Europe, Middle East, Africa?11:21
jwbuosiu, yes it does but this isn't the right channel for that question11:21
f13Europe, Middle East, Africa11:21
wwoodsbut yeah - we're in the middle of a QA meeting at the moment11:21
jwbi thought it was Asia?11:21
f13or is that Asia11:21
wwoodsno, asia is APAC11:21
f13ah right11:21
* jwb watches train derail11:21
wwoodspoelcat: if you can engage the reporter(s) on bug 429758 and get a reproducer11:22
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=429758 high, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , Cannot upgrade F7 system with F9 alpha11:22
wwoodspoelcat: then I will buy you a beer11:22
wwoodsor something11:22
viking-iceJust installed FC-8 on the new toy ( 64bit Lenovo T61p 2.6 mhz Penryn  ) did not go smoothly ( text mode  - nopcmcia - runlevel 3 change driver to vesa no wifi ) gonna see if this is gonna be a problem with alpha as well..11:22
wwoodssomeday we will have scorekeeping for this11:22
wwoodsviking-ice: off-topic - we're working on the beta right now11:22
f13viking-ice: please see #fedora11:22
wwoodsdon't bother with alpha11:22
viking-iceor beta then..11:22
wwoodswait a week11:22
wwoodsfor beta. or if you want to be super-brave, help us test the beta 11:23
mcepltibbs: http://hughsient.livejournal.com/46192.html (but of course, I don't how real it is)11:23
wwoodsOK next: Bug 42993711:23
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=429937 medium, medium, ---, Peter Jones, MODIFIED , Can't find root on initial boot after install11:23
viking-iceif been running rawhide on i386 since it came out..11:23
wwoodslooks a lot like the mkinitrd errors11:24
wwoodsjeremy sez it's fixed11:24
wwoodsneeds retesting11:24
f13wwoods: this one isn't related to the encrypted PVs right?11:24
f13wwoods: my installs yesterday were booting, without encryption11:24
f13using UUID mount option11:24
jeremywwoods: I fixed it on the machine bpeck was having problems with.  it's mostly just a matter of "did I transcribe things correctly" :)11:24
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wwoodsAFAIK, not encryption related11:24
wwoodsjeremy: what was the problem?11:25
jeremyf13: I did an encrypted root install yesterday and it worked fine11:25
jeremywwoods: multiple loads of scsi_wait_scan.  we now only ever load scsi_wait_scan once.  and after everything else11:25
wwoodsso you could detect this problem by examining the initrd /init and looking for multiple scsi_wait_scan?11:25
wwoodsor was this a modprobe/udev problem11:25
wwoodsNEEDINFO bpeck, or CLOSED RAWHIDE11:26
jeremythe former11:26
wwoodswill do11:26
jeremyand it just happens to show up on the boxes bpeck was testing on because they have more disks and take longer to spin up11:26
wwoodsnext: Bug 43268311:26
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=432683 urgent, low, ---, Jima, NEEDINFO , Doxygen causes slightly different images on i386 and x86_6411:26
wwoodsdoxygen multilib.. not blocker, IMHI11:27
wwoodserr IMHO. (in my humble.. idiocy?)11:27
wwoodsoh you already did11:27
wwoodsthanks f13 11:27
wwoodsBug 43302411:27
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=433024 low, low, ---, Jeremy Katz, MODIFIED , Anaconda traceback when trying to resize old LV to create new LV11:27
wwoodsNeeds retest11:28
wwoodsI reported it, so Problem Belong wwoods!11:28
wwoodsI'll update that this afternoon11:28
* f13 waits for snapmirror to do it's thing. Hurray for signed packages.11:28
wwoodsBug 43307911:28
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=433079 low, low, ---, Dave Lehman, NEW , Installer traceback from F9 alpha on x86_64 using raid and encryption11:28
wwoodshasn't moved since Feb. 2011:29
wwoodsI'll put it in NEEDINFO reporter but IIRC Bruno has other problems (mkinitrd stuff) 11:29
wwoodsif he's gotten to mkinitrd.. then I guess he's gotten through the install11:29
wwoodshe's doing some really weird partitioning11:29
wwoodslike LVM+LUKS+mdraid 11:30
jeremywwoods: dlehman was looking at some of those cases I think11:31
jwbwwoods, mkinitrd throws odd file errors for me but it's not causing me runtime problems11:31
wwoodsjwb: that's good!11:31
wwoodsBug 43521911:32
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=435219 low, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, MODIFIED , anaconda can't handle URL with port11:32
wwoodsneeds retest/confirmation11:32
f13MODIFIED is a good sign11:32
wwoodsI can do that really easily11:32
wwoodsI'll confirm and close (or bug jeremy/clumens)11:32
wwoodsbug 43522811:33
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=435228 low, low, ---, Peter Jones, ASSIGNED , mkinitrd doesn't grab dm modules for LVs listed by LABEL or UUID11:33
f13this one is still alive and kicking isn't it?11:33
wwoodspjones had me test a patch yesterday which seemed to solve the problem11:33
wwoodsit's.. mutated a bit11:33
wwoodsprobably that bug should get split11:34
wwoodsbut alas11:34
wwoodsthe bug now is that the lvm tools return e.g. /dev/mapper/luks-sda2 instead of /dev/dm-211:34
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wwoodsfor LUKS PVs11:34
wwoodsmkinitrd was not doing the right thing 11:35
wwoodsanyway, dunno if pjones committed his patch11:35
wwoodsbut no mkinitrd has been built11:35
wwoodsjeremy: if you've got commit access (or can bother pjones) I'd really like that to be fixed today11:36
wwoodsnext: Bug 43622611:36
jeremywwoods: you'll probably have as much or more luck bugging pjones today as me.  in ~ 15 minutes, I disappear for a few hours11:37
jeremywwoods: if it's not built by tonight, though, I can do it11:37
wwoodsjeremy: understoof11:37
wwoodsuh, heh. understood too11:37
jwbwwoods, is pjones opposed to someone else committing, building?11:37
wwoodsjwb: no idea. I know warren has commit access in pkgdb11:37
wwoodsI'd be happier if a couple other people did 11:38
jwbi have commit access everywhere11:38
wwoodsI know we're working on RHEL5.2 stuff and whatnot11:39
wwoodsthere will continue to be times where pjones is swamped or otherwise unavailable11:40
wwoodsI'd like to talk with him about who else can/should commit fixes when he's unable11:40
jwbat the moment, that list would probably consist of you :)11:40
jeremywwoods: dlehman and I both have commit access11:40
wwoodsI'm sure he's sick of me bugging him to fix stuff11:41
wwoodsa simple "do it your own damn self" or "bug so-and-so" would work11:41
wwoodsanyway, we can discuss that further after this meeting11:41
wwoodsoh, and as a side note: minus several dozen points from me for mashing two different problems into the same bug report11:41
wwoodsanyway, bug 436226: anaconda still installs packages marked as removed in kickstart11:42
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436226 low, low, ---, Chris Lumens, ASSIGNED , anaconda still installs packages marked as removed in kickstart11:42
wwoodsoh there's buggbot11:42
wwoodsneed to ping clumens about that one11:42
wwoods'cuz.. that should work11:42
wwoodsjeremy: possible that was related to the "always installing GNOME" bug, or is this something new?11:42
jeremywwoods: it's possible.  might also be something else.  if chris doesn't get to it today, I'll look at it this evening11:43
wwoodsjeremy: cool11:43
wwoodsBug 436360: Traceback from nfs install11:43
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436360 low, low, ---, Chris Lumens, MODIFIED , Traceback from nfs install11:43
wwoodsf13: you confirmed that one fixed - should it get closed or is there something else we're waiting for?11:44
f13this is me isn't that?11:44
f13oh, I verified his scratch build, I was waiting for a real build to hit rawhide, I'll close now11:44
f13mother fucking evdev!!!!!!11:44
wwoodsBug 43671411:44
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436714 low, low, ---, Adam Jackson, ASSIGNED , F-9 VMWare video driver is broken11:44
wwoodsvmware. yeah.11:45
f13I can't click the resolution box and drag down to rawhide with my usb mouse11:45
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f13selection is all gone to crap11:45
* jeremy goes to get a free lunch11:45
f13wwoods: we use vmware video driver in qemu11:45
wwoodsf13: that's *weird*, man. I have had no such trouble11:45
jwbwwoods, USB mouse?11:45
wwoodsf13: oh! then I guess I care slightly more11:45
f13wwoods: my built in mouse works just fine, it's only the USB mouse plugged in that goes nuts.11:45
wwoodsf13: weird11:45
jwbi have the same11:45
f13jwb: you aren't using a mighty-mouse are you?11:46
wwoodslooks like poelcat and jds2001 are all over this one11:46
jwbf13, no, G5 mouse11:46
f13jwb: ok, that's still an apple mouse.11:46
jwbi've no idea what a mighty-mouse i11:46
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f13jwb: the apple mouse that has the scroll ball on top11:46
f13and the ability to right/left click11:47
jwbf13, oh, yeah that's what i'm using11:47
f13jwb: http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/11:47
jwbare you using that?11:47
f13jwb: HAH!  I bet it's a bug specifically with this mouse!11:47
jwbthat's fun...11:47
jwbwhy the hell are you using that on x86?11:47
f13anyway, off topic11:48
wwoodsanyway ISTR ajax mumbling something about this driver11:48
wwoodsand there's plenty of eyeballs on it11:48
f13wwoods: yeah, he was poking at kvm last night to work on it.11:48
jwbf13, i'll try a logitech mouse on my thinkpad.  one sec11:48
f13don't know the current status11:48
wwoodsI'll leave it to poelcat / jds2001 to retest 11:48
f13jwb: the bizarre thing is that the mouse owrks just fine in Evolution, but nowhere else11:48
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wwoodspoelcat: you hear me? I'm assigning you things to do without you here. HA HA HA11:49
wwoodsBug 43685511:49
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436855 low, low, ---, Chris Lumens, CLOSED RAWHIDE, loader rejects all HTTP/FTP trees when run from netinst.iso11:49
wwoods...was closed between the time I opened the bug list and now11:49
f13jwb: a different mouse works here.11:49
wwoodsBug 43700911:49
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437009 low, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , Anaconda fails to properly create/destroy loop devices11:49
f13wwoods: I did that I think.11:49
jwbf13, yeah i just tried some random optical mouse.  works fine here too11:50
wwoodsclumens was looking at that yesterday11:50
f13wwoods: clumens is working on that one right now.11:50
wwoodsso yeah11:50
wwoodsI reported it11:50
f13jwb: I'll update the bug11:50
wwoodsI'll work with him and shepherd that one through11:50
wwoodsBug 43703911:50
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437039 low, low, ---, Kristian Høgsberg, NEW , Synaptics default acceleration values are way slow for alps11:50
wwoodsnot a blocker. dropping to F9Target11:51
f13yeah, that was going to be another entry in the .fdi file in hal-info I think11:51
wwoodsalso I'm reassigning it to ajax 'cuz he's working on it11:51
wwoodsf13: ajax sez it turns out that it has to be done in-driver11:51
wwoodsBug 43704111:52
f13wwoods: LAME!11:52
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437041 low, low, ---, Panu Matilainen, MODIFIED , rpmtsOrder fails building x86_64 live image11:52
poelcatwwoods: which bug?11:52
wwoodspoelcat: Bug 43671411:52
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436714 low, low, ---, Adam Jackson, ASSIGNED , F-9 VMWare video driver is broken11:52
wwoodsf13: I know right? whatever, it's a sub-variant of synaptics11:52
poelcatwwoods: glad to11:53
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wwoodspoelcat: awesome, thanks for the ack11:53
mceplwwoods: mouse, keyboards and stuff like that should go to krh more than to ajax11:53
mcepl(although ajax might work on it)11:53
wwoodsmcepl: yeah, but ajax was actively working on it (he commented as such in the bug)11:53
wwoodsmcepl: but I'll keep that in mind in the future, thanks11:54
* mcepl thinks that ajax has too much spare time that he is mixing himself into mouse business ;-)11:54
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wwoodsas for the rpmtsOrder bug11:54
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wwoodspanu sez rpm- fixes that, and jeremy suggests sending mail to rel-eng to get it included in beta11:55
wwoodsI don't see any mail to that effect11:55
f13I don't either, but I'll happily tag.  Perhaps that build will also fix the .gvfs issue11:56
wwoodsf13: should we: a) bug panu to make sure that's the package he wants, b) just take the package, c) wait11:56
f13I'm leaning toward B since it's late in Panuland11:57
wwoodsAFAICT it's only a fix for 43704111:57
f13yeah, that's what it looks like.11:57
wwoodsso it should be pretty safe11:57
wwoodsit'd be nice to get a .gvfs patch for beta11:57
wwoodsbut for now it might behoove us to tag that fix so we can work on making live images11:58
wwoodsanyway, your call11:58
wwoodsfinally, back to Bug 43704811:58
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437048 low, urgent, ---, Robin Norwood, NEW , [RFE]: Please let KDE users also use gnome-packagekit11:58
wwoodsbeta blocker: not so much, actually11:58
f13no, but I"ll take it11:58
f13if a build happens11:58
wwoodsoh, I was talking about the KDE+gnome-packagekit bug11:59
wwoodsbut yeah, the .gvfs thing is not really a blocker11:59
wwoodsbut it's ugly and confusing enough that I'd definitely encourage pulling in a fix for that11:59
f13I'll take a kde+packagekit thing if there is a build for it though11:59
wwoodswe've already had several people trying desperately to figure out how to delete /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs11:59
f13I don't think there is a build of rpm that'll fix .gvfs yet12:00
f13it's fixed upstream, just no build in Fedora for it12:00
wwoodsI thought I heard rumors that there was an upstream fix12:00
wwoodsfixed in rpm5 I'm sure12:00
* wwoods cough cough12:00
jwbin rpm5, /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs deletes you!12:00
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wwoodsso hmm. Here's an interesting question. Is it a blocker if a new F9 feature (pk) doesn't work right in non-default desktop setups (KDE)?12:01
wwoodsfeels like a "no" but I'm sure people will argue otherwise12:02
wwoodsI'll have to review release criteria and make sure they match my gut feeling here12:02
jwbmost on FESCo took care to make sure Features accommodated KDE12:02
wwoodsright. but do we block on KDE-only bugs?12:02
jwbsounds like a "drop it as a Feature" if it isn't fixed soonish12:02
jwbbut i wouldnt' block the release12:02
wwoodsthat's the more general question12:02
wwoodsI'm gonna move this to F9Blocker12:03
wwoodswe can revisit it later12:03
f13I don't think I would hold up beta waiting for a fix, however if there was a fix made available today/tomorrow, I would likely take it12:03
f13(for beta)12:03
wwoodsyeah, agreed12:03
f13it's still testable, even in KDE, by running it manually12:03
wwoodsso now we have 11 Beta blockers, only 1 in NEW12:04
jwbi thought i saw something about this go by on the lists.  it's being worked on, isn't it?12:04
f13I suppose compiz not working on Intel graphics isn't a beta blocker?12:04
f13oh, I do need to make something a beta blocker, NetworkManager barfs on routes after dhcp renew12:04
f13jwb: It's being talked about...12:04
wwoodsfile it!12:04
jwbf13, also, bumping fedora-release?12:05
f13wwoods: I am, dan already fixed it upstream, there just isn't ab uild for it yet12:05
f13jwb: yes, fedora-release needs bumping.12:05
f138.92 right?12:05
wwoodsoh yeah - fedora-release version number should be 8.9212:05
f13wwoods: can you file that one?  (:12:05
wwoods0 = pre-alpha, 1 = alpha, 2 = beta, 3 = PR12:05
wwoodswill do12:05
wwoodsas for compiz on intel.. nnnggh.12:06
wwoodsbut not really (alt-tab crashes X)12:07
jwbso why is compiz blocker for anything?12:07
f13I just get a black screen of textures12:07
f13jwb: it's a pretty bad regression12:07
wwoodsbut I don't know whether this is something that's got an imminent fix12:07
jwbf13, it was a rhetorical question :)12:07
wwoodsor something that'll  be a week or two of debugging to fix12:07
f13wwoods: yeah, I'll go bug krh about it, but I don't think it's beta blocking material.12:07
f13He's been "working" on it for a week or so already12:07
wwoodsI'm inclined to agree12:08
wwoodsyeah, I think it's yet another "not blocker, but I'd take a fix if one landed"12:08
wwoodsI think it's probably a F9Blocker though :/12:08
jds2001as for the bug in NEW, I can try a F7->rawhide tonight if that would help.  Let me know what data is helpful if it fails.12:08
wwoodsjds2001: as I was telling poelcat, I'd bet money that it's something wonky with their partition table / filesystem labels / fstab12:09
wwoodsso.. you know, comparing the output of blkid and /etc/fstab and stuff 12:09
wwoodswill probably be necessary to try to reproduce12:09
wwoodsconfirmation that it works under normal circumstances would be really good12:09
poelcatjds2001: lol... you were thinking vmware like me I bet12:09
poelcatjds2001: how many guests do you currently have?12:10
jds2001yep, especially since it's talking bout LABELS of /1 and stuff12:10
jds2001poelcat: bout 20 or so12:10
jds2001it's on a rhel4 box w/8GB RAM.  Got it cheap from the Dell outlet :)12:10
wwoodsnow we have 3 bugs in new! wee12:10
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jwbin semi-related news, i have a ppc compose going right now12:11
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poelcathas anyone been able to xen installs?12:11
jwbassuming it doesn't fail, i'll try testing it and seeing if omar can as well12:11
poelcatsomeone on #fedora-qa said it was broken last nihgt12:11
mmcgrathpoelcat: ?12:11
mmcgrathpoelcat: sorry, ignore that.12:11
poelcatf8 doing a xen install of rawhide12:11
wwoodspoelcat: f9b host, or f9b guest?12:11
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wwoodsoh we might be bonking into another meeting now12:12
wwoodshm, no, we've got 'til 1700UTC. disregard12:13
wwoodsanyway, that's the blocker list12:13
wwoodshooray for ppc compose12:13
* jwb will assume that was a genuine hooray12:13
wwoodslet's segue into.. the test plan12:13
wwoodsjwb: def! I've been anxious to have something to run on my g5 for a while12:13
jwbwwoods, ah :).  rawhide has been decent on mine as of last friday12:14
wwoodsthat's the results page for Beta12:14
wwoodsI think I'm gonna change it to add a "tester" column 12:14
wwoodsso people can get credit for their work12:14
wwoodsI should file a bug about stage2=hd:XXX not working12:15
wwoodsPreUpgrade is hard to test without it12:15
wwoodsand that's kind of a new Upgrade Path -> new thing to test12:15
wwoodsOTOH you can test it without stage2=hd:XXX.. so maybe I need to get the bastard packaged up12:16
wwoodsand write up a test case for it12:16
wwoodsalso it needs a new name12:16
wwoodsfedora-easy-upgrade or something12:16
wwoodswhich abbreviates to FEU, which I'm sure the francophones will be amused by12:16
wwoodsanyway, yes, I'm going to add a Tester field to the test results page12:17
wwoodsyou're all welcomed and encouraged to run the test cases and fill in results (and/or suggest changes)12:17
wwoodsEvilBob: heh! 12:18
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EvilBobDon't name things "fedora"12:18
wwoodsmaybe I'll just name it apt-get-dist-upgrade12:18
wwoodsEvilBob: it's fedora-specific, though12:19
wwoodsother s-c-* tools (e.g. s-c-display) are not 12:19
wwoodsyes. test stuff. report results. go forth and conquer.12:19
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/Beta12:20
wwoodsuhh yeah12:20
wwoodslate on the topic change12:20
wwoodsbut that's what we just talked about. heh. anything else on that topic12:20
* wwoods takes that as a no12:20
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | misc.12:21
wwoodsany other QA-related stuff we should talk about?12:21
wwoodslet's call that a no12:22
wwoodsthanks for the time, folks12:22
wwoodsGO FORTH AND DESTROY (bugs)12:22
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule12:22
wwoodsf13: heh thanks. do you have that aliased or something?12:22
f13wwoods: ys12:22
jds2001heh /mt for me :)12:22
wwoodsyou clever people12:23
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wwoodsokay, time for me to rock my 'things to (re)test' list12:24
wwoodsand also eat the bejesus out of some lunch-type food units12:24
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poelcatjds2001: can you test that F7 thing... i just hosed my vmware setup :)12:33
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-!- jds2001 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora BugZappers Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Meetings/Agenda-2008-Mar-1212:58
jds2001who's here?13:00
jds2001let's get this party started :)13:00
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* nirik is sorta around, but dealing with about 3 things at once. 13:01
* poelcat here13:01
* stickster here fwiw13:01
poelcatstickster: joing the BugZahpahs?13:01
sticksterI want to at least see how I can pitch it to a larger group13:02
poelcatthat's what they're called in the NE ;-)13:02
sticksterThat makes me think we're shooting lobsters13:02
sticksterThey call those "bugs" up there in Yankee-land13:02
jds2001heh :)13:03
jds2001so this meeting is supposed to discuss tehse proposals,  iwas hoping for a better turnoout :/13:04
jds2001http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnPoelstra/BugzillaExtremeMakeOver and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping13:04
poelcatjds2001: i got it added to the fesco schedule for tomorrow too13:05
jds2001cool, saw that.13:05
poelcatonly constructive feedback I've gotten so far (in private mail)13:05
poelcatwas "what about tracking RFEs or Feature" bugzillas13:05
poelcatsuggestion was that those should always stay open and rawhide13:06
jds2001yep, so long as they start with RFE we can exclude them easily13:06
jds2001same with Package Reviews13:06
jds2001so long as we're just providing an advanced query to eng-ops, that's quite doable.13:07
jds2001actually i wonder if ppl are using the FutureFeature keyword like they should13:08
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jds2001yep, 431 bugs w/that keyword open13:09
poelcatwell, then they complained that they shouldn't use the subject line or keyword :-/13:09
jds2001huh?  How do wwe tell then?13:10
* poelcat is puzzled too13:10
poelcatkind of like some of the feedback on the list13:10
poelcat"that is a bad idea... it won't work"13:10
poelcat"i don't have any suggestions on how to change it either"13:10
poelcatgiven our current environment I think FutureFeature is the best way to go13:11
jds2001well i just did a FutureFeature OR ^RFE, and it raised the number to 54213:12
poelcatjds2001: more good stuff to add to the procdures somewhere13:12
poelcatjds2001: hopefully tomorrow's meeting will draw more attention to it... or maybe it is just really good ;-)13:13
jds2001hehe :)13:13
poelcatwe can move on if you want13:13
* poelcat wants to talk about RSS hawtness13:13
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poelcatI guess it makes sense to add Feature exclusion to cleanup and regular procedures13:14
jds2001yeah, and likely package review too13:15
poelcaton the other hand does it make sense to keep a feature open forever if it is never going to be implemented?13:15
jds2001but you exclude features you end up with cruft like bug 1153913:15
buggbotBug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11539 medium, low, ---, Bill Nottingham, ASSIGNED , /sbin/ifup should not allow everyone to bring interface up/down13:15
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jds2001what sucks is the modified date of every bug was changed as the result of versioning changes13:18
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jds2001so I can't just say show me stuff that hasn't been touched in a year13:18
poelcatyou can blame me for that :)13:18
poelcatat least we don't have "test3" as a version any more :)13:19
jds2001no, it's a good thing :)13:19
poelcatI propose that we backburner feature thing and see what other feedback comes in13:19
poelcator go the more aggressive route of closing them and seeing if we "hear" from people13:20
jds2001RSS feed improvements are forthcoming13:20
poelcatthat seemms like a really good solution!?13:20
poelcatthe whole RSS thing13:20
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poelcatcan you create a wiki page so people can create their own custom queries?13:21
* jds2001 wonders if that code is on parner-bugzilla yet13:21
poelcatwiki page w/ instructions on how to do  it13:21
jds2001there's just an RSS link at the bottom of the search13:21
poelcatso why do you put it in feedburner?13:21
jds2001you could subscribe to that.  The URL is about a mile long, that's why i used feedburner for the "advertised" ones13:22
poelcatso once the fix is in people can watch single components?13:22
jds2001they can do that today with the 'advertised' feeds13:23
poelcatcould a maintainer make a feed to see all bugs where they are assigned  to?13:23
poelcatthen what does that RFE address?13:23
jds2001what fields are included in the feed13:23
jds2001like the component isn't there today, making it fairly useless for some ppl13:24
jds2001hmm, doesnt look like that code is on partner-bugzilla yet13:26
poelcathmm in my feed reader I only see the bz# and descrition13:26
jds2001if you open it, you'll see opened date, assignee, severity, priority, status, and changed date13:27
jds2001those fields will change on tomorrow....13:27
jds2001stickster: wanna talk about your ideas for expanding the audience?13:29
* jds2001 is all ears :)13:29
sticksterWell, I was wondering if you guys had seen this:13:30
sticksterUnfortunately, still looking for a "show off the goods" site13:30
sticksterIt's not really feasible as a suggestion, just interesting from the community bug perspective13:31
sticksterThis is something Bryan Clark is working on, an email-driven bug tracker13:31
sticksterSimplified interface, intensely XML driven, and consumable by other instances13:31
jds2001so, the triage team would take this stuff and throw it in bugzilla?13:32
sticksterSo you can basically set up a Kwestie bug tracker of your own that takes feeds from other kwestie bug trackers, so it's like Bugzilla-meets-RSSreader.13:32
jds2001that's fairly cool.13:33
sticksterNewer bugzilla probably has better RSS/XML capabilities and might be able to tie better with this.13:33
sticksterOne of the questions Kwestie answers is, "how does my customer/user enter bugs without having a PhD in Bugzilla?"13:34
jds2001i dunno.  I do know that RH bugzilla support xmlrpc methods that upstream didn't.13:34
jds2001I think they're trying to get that stuff upstream w/3.213:34
sticksterAnyway, this is a side issue.13:34
sticksterI just wanted you guys to have a link to it -- it's Ruby on Rails I think, so if you know how to set that stuff up, you should be able to take it for a test drive.13:34
* stickster scratches his head.13:35
poelcatstickster: way back when wwoods proposed a special start page for Fedora, but I think issue was someone w/ skilz to implement it13:35
poelcati think that is our best solution for now13:35
stickstersure... again, not proposing that we do anything with Kwestie at this time.13:35
poelcatit would mask all the unnecessary stuff13:35
sticksterJust wanted to see if you guys had heard of it already.13:36
wwoodswe're not moving to a new bug tracker13:36
wwoodsthat's ridiculous13:36
jds2001the pervasive issue that i've seen with bugzilla is that we have 5000 components13:36
sticksterwwoods: Right.13:36
poelcatwwoods: no one is suggesting that :)13:36
wwoodsjust making sure that's clear13:36
sticksterBut thanks for clearing it up ;-)13:36
poelcatwwoods: do you have a pointer to the start page ideas you had?13:37
wwoodsyeah. we don't need to present all 5000 components to the user. we could have a smart client-based pygtk tool 13:37
jds2001but the thing is, we have 5000 components because we *have* 5000 components.13:37
wwoodswith wizards and gizards and auto-log-grabbing13:37
sticksterLike a better bug-buddy?13:37
wwoodsyes. like a better bug-buddy. 13:37
wwoodsmake days 30 hours long and I'll finish it in a month13:37
* stickster waves wand *zap!*13:37
poelcatwwoods: when/if we could secure an intern... do you think that would be a viable project for them?13:38
wwoodswe should write up a spec for such an app13:38
jds2001we were thinking that's something an intern could do.13:38
wwoodsand do some UI mockups13:38
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wwoodsbut yes13:38
wwoodsgiven a spec to code to and some ui mockups13:38
wwoodswell. probably. I'm making some unsupported assumptions about intern skillllz13:39
poelcati naively added that to the intern page someone created13:39
poelcatas a possible project13:39
poelcatwwoods: didn't you scope something out to the websites mailing list?13:39
jds2001gack, the one im not on :)13:40
wwoodsmaybe? probably? 13:40
wwoodsmaybe like a year ago I had a mockup simplified bug entry page13:40
wwoodsthat is Not The Solution13:40
wwoodscouldn't hurt though13:40
wwoodsif I had time for either I'd work on the clientside app first13:41
poelcatwwoods: that's what I was remembering :)13:41
jds2001wwoods: if it's not too much of a problem, ask dkl to push the new RSS code to partner-bugzilla13:43
jds2001i still dont see it there, and it's supposedly going out tomorrow (unless i misunderstood)13:44
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jds2001anything else?13:46
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* poelcat is good13:47
nirikI might have something... ;)13:47
jds2001shoot :)13:47
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niriknot sure if it's bugzapper, but I think related... Would it be possible to generate a list of 'these comonents need maintainer help' ? ie, identify where we could get more maintainers for some components that get lots of bugs?13:48
jds2001i do some reporting already on that sort of stuff.13:48
nirikor even a top 10 list of 'these got the most new bugs last week'...13:48
poelcatnirik: we were thinking of collecting data like that as we start the cleanup13:48
nirikok, cool. I think some reporting like that posted to the devel list could help out...13:48
poelcatlike a before/during/after snapshot13:48
poelcatto see where the pain points are13:49
jds2001if you want a weekly report to f-devel of bugs filed in the last week, that can certaintly be arranged.13:49
poelcatnirik: my only fear is that the data might get taken in the wrong way13:49
nirikyeah, it would need some explaining...13:49
nirikdon't want all bugs, but perhaps a breakdown by component/release or something...13:50
nirikI'm sure we know the kernel gets a lot of bugs, but it might identify some other component that only has a single maintainer or something where we could go help.13:50
jds2001yeah, i privately have some reports targeting rawhide13:50
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jds2001take a look in ~jstanley/public_html on fedorapeople.org if you wanna see the data :)13:51
jds2001three are some spreadsheets there that aren't linked to anywhere.13:52
jds2001let me know if something like that is what you wanna see.13:53
jds2001i have a report at home of last month, but it's sorta tainted due to gcc4313:53
poelcatnirik: as a FESCo-er can you give any guidance on what stuff we need to take there for review or not?13:54
nirikI think surely the bug closing/livecycle/moving forward should get approved...13:54
poelcatright now we're taking the approach that anything highly disruptive or that we need to get the word out on should be brought up there13:54
nirikyeah, that seems reasonable to me.13:54
poelcatokay thanks13:55
jds2001hopefully the discussion tehre will be lively tomorrow.13:56
* jds2001 is disappointed with the lack of feedback thus far.13:56
nirikyeah, I was expecting more flames...13:56
jds2001of course everyone will scream bloody murder when it actually *ahppens*13:56
nirikperhaps people just didn't see it...13:56
nirikyou could post to the fedora list. :) Get end user feedback.13:57
jds2001that might not be a bad idea.13:57
jds2001except that my normal account isn't subscribed.  I have another one that is.13:58
jds2001WAAAYYY too high volume and s/n for me :)13:58
poelcatjds2001: i can post there if you like13:58
jds2001nah, i can do it, just wont come from my normal acct.13:59
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* poelcat is subscribed and behind 2,000 messages13:59
jds2001lol better than my 5,000 threads :)13:59
poelcatjds2001: fwiw I think it best to just post the links and not the raw wiki text13:59
jds2001for there, yeah14:00
smoogehi guys how long til end of meeting for you?14:00
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poelcatsmooge: now :)14:00
jds2001i guess we can move :)14:00
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL Sig meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process14:01
smoogeHi everybody; who's around for the EPEL meeting?14:01
* nirik is still here. 14:01
* knurd is for a few minutes14:01
smoogeok I forgot to update http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines.. but they still seem relevant14:02
* mmcgrath will likely be only sort of here, still working out the FAS2 bugs14:03
smoogeanyone else here? quaid?14:03
smoogeI understand.. this meeting should be pretty short14:03
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | fill the steering committee; one self-nomination: Xavier Lamien| all | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc14:04
smoogeI had asked Xavier for a self-introduction to the list, but have not heard from him on this.. anyone talked with Xavier?14:05
nirikI haven't...14:05
* knurd hasn't14:06
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smoogeAny suggestions on the next step to do? Look for more nominations.. look over what our 'board' needs are and staff accordingly? I could not find where it says the board must be X members.. but my search-foo could be poor14:07
nirikwell, it's mostly anyone interested I think...14:07
nirikperhaps send him a private email and ask again? and deffer till next time?14:08
knurdwe never had a hard limit14:08
knurdthe goal afaics always was 7 -- if there are one or two more it's no problem; less actually is a problem imho14:09
knurdright now you are 7 iirc14:09
smoogeknurd, ok thanks. I was wondering if there were general guidelines on how many people were supposed to be there, and what quorum was.14:09
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knurdas I said, the goal was 7, but the world still rotates if we are a few more or less14:09
* nirik nods14:10
knurdI actually think a few more is better, as long as they are active in either the meetings or the list14:10
smoogeOk I will send out another private email, one to the list, and then put this for the next meeting.14:10
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | Status Reports | all | Build System, Packages in waiting etc14:11
smoogeOk I sent out a general status report on Sunday, though not UTC Sunday :(. I will try and get that more automated14:12
smoogemmcgrath, are there any issues with the current build system?14:12
knurdsmooge, what do you mean by "Packages in waiting"?14:12
knurdwe can do pushes more often if there is a need to14:13
* nirik has no knowledge of problems with the buildsys. Other than its still plague. ;) 14:13
mmcgrathsmooge: buildsys is on an old and unsupported box.14:13
nirikI've been doing pushes about every other day or so... or trying to.14:13
smoogePackages that are not in testing yet because they are waiting for other issues: rt3 and zenoss coems to mind14:13
* quaid is back, sorry I was delayed14:13
* smooge takes the Eric Troan noodle and slaps quaid 14:13
mmcgrathand the builders  have been crashing lately from some sort of recursive call to texpdf.14:13
mmcgraththose are the only two issues I know of.14:14
nirikI have 2 things I am looking to get in:14:14
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nirikmunin - blocking on 2 perl modules... need to bug spot about them.14:14
nirikXfce - I have done some test builds here, but need to do a bit more testing before I add them all in.14:14
smoogeok thanks mmcgrath . The good news is that they are still building.. The bad news is that it is a not-quite-dead box..14:15
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smoogeOk thanks nirik . Our wishlist has quite a few items on it. I need to pick up some more packages but not sure about how exactly we do 'forks' when Fedora maintainer is non-responsive14:16
knurdsmooge, we just do them in bugzilla with the Fedora maintainer CCed14:16
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knurdthen he can yell if he wants to take care of the package in EPEL14:16
smoogeWell I have some bug reports in place for like john the ripper, but have not see a 'fork' for it. Maybe I did the bug report wrong14:17
nirikyeah, give them a week to answer.14:17
smoogeI will work with nirik on this later14:17
* nirik nods14:17
* knurd has to leave soon14:18
smoogenext topic will be build reports14:18
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | make broken dep reports work and send them to the list | mmcgrath | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc14:18
knurdjust a note, I'll prepare the next EPEL4 testing->stable move tomorrow14:18
smoogeI think this is a closed issue now.14:18
smoogeThanks knurd14:18
knurdand will likely relaize it this weekend14:18
smoogeThanks.. that was my next one.. but since you need to leave14:18
* knurd should watch the keyboard more closely -- to many typos today14:19
nirikknurd: sounds good. I will avoid pushing el4 after today until thats done.14:19
knurdnirik, thx14:19
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | EL-4/EL-5 pushes | knurd14:19
knurdsmooge, I know, you'd prefer a exact time for the movements14:19
smoogeknurd, is it in your plans of 'easing' out that this needs to be turned over to someone else? Or are you willing/wanting to do this for the forseeable future?14:19
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knurdbut that's not that easy always14:20
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knurdsmooge, it's not that hard; I can take care of it in the future as well14:20
* nirik is happy to take over as long as there are good instructions. 14:20
smoogeknurd, actually my goal is to have a 'set' time. Goals are something we measure by and then move when we see we can or can not meet them14:20
knurdnirik, I updated the instructions in the wiki14:20
nirikyeah, just haven't had a chance to look.14:20
knurdsmooge, well, I know, but life sometimes comes in between14:21
smoogeso if it turns out that we have to do it on the first and second Saturday of every month.. thats cool with me. I just want to get some 'results' to measure against14:21
smoogeAnd the results are that this is a volunteer project ;)14:21
knurdI also like to have a few work and weekend days betweeen annoucements and the actualy moving14:21
knurdthat should give people a chance to respond to my "the next move will happen soon" mail14:21
smoogeknurd, would it be better if we had a 3rd channel? Or made testing just the place for stuff going into push? As in the devel -> integration -> production -> retirement model?14:22
nirikwell, there are always going to be some things maintainers aren't ready to push to stable yet.14:22
knurdnp, a 3rd channel just complicates things more without a benefit IMHO14:22
* nirik nods.14:23
knurdI don't think a devel branch makes sense for EPEL14:23
smoogeok cool. I want to make sure that we are not missing something14:23
knurdit only makes sense when a new RHEL release is approaching14:23
knurdmaybe once EPEL is really big a 3rd channel might make sense14:23
knurdbut that's not the case yet14:23
smoogeok cool. I will bring this up every couple of meetings just to make sure we havent passed the epiphany moment too far.. "You know we really could do with a 3rd channel last month"14:24
knurdbodhi might change the whole process sooner or later again in any case14:24
smoogeBut I will consider it a "Not yet"14:24
knurdsmooge, k14:24
nirikyeah, bodhi will be nice for epel.14:24
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | RHEL-5.2beta14:25
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smoogeok this came out yesterday..14:25
knurdnirik, +1, as the maintainer then can decide on their own what to do14:25
* quaid missed if there is a schedule for bodhi-izing EPEL14:25
* jmbuser agrees it should 35 minutes from now14:25
knurdquaid, the schedule afaics is "once we switched to koji" ;-)14:25
nirikquaid: it's waiting on koji support, which is waiting on code changes in koji that no one has time for. ;(14:25
knurdas bodhi depends a lot on koji14:25
smoogequaid, it is problematic due to EL binaries with koji14:25
jmbusertheoretically speaking :-)14:25
smooge====> slow typer14:26
* knurd leaves the keyboard for two or three minutes14:26
* quaid didn't mean to change topics, will wait for other biz14:26
smoogeOk 5.2beta was announced yesterday. It has a lot of newer packages and will affect EPEL in some parts14:26
nirikjmbuser: 35min?14:26
* jmbuser pardons himself - sorry14:26
jmbuserwrong channel :-(14:26
quaidsmooge: did some packages in EPEL get snarfed into 5.2?14:26
niriksmooge: cool. We will need to identify the packages from epel that got pulled in.14:27
smoogeFirst part that affects EPEL, 5.1 will still be around. 2 packages have been snarfed like rsyslog14:27
smoogewhich I think was in the epel waiting14:27
quaidwe need someone on the RHEL side communicating with us on that before it happens14:27
nirikit happened in 5.1 as well, no biggie.14:27
quaidstill ...14:27
smoogequaid, I thought that was you  :)14:27
quaid<== Brand Communications now, far from Engineering these days14:28
nirikwe just need to identify them, and make sure the 5.2 version is newer, and make sure the epel maintainers dead.package them in epel.14:28
quaidsmooge: yeah, I need to find that person14:28
smoogequaid, hehehe Well I will remember to type out Red Hat Enterprise Linux istead of RHEL ;)14:28
quaidstickster: we need to talk about getting someone in the RHEL prod mgmt chain to own the EPEL relationship14:28
* quaid rolls his eyes14:29
smoogenirik, the issue comes up with the 5.1 channel issues. Are we going to deal with them? Or just stick with the 'latest' channel14:29
nirikwe just have stuck with the latest.14:29
nirikI think doing multiple channels is too much for us...14:29
smoogequaid, sorry.. I spent a summer getting whacked for every RedHat versus Red Hat typing I did :)14:30
quaidwell, that one is for certain!14:30
smoogenirik, ok.. I will need to clarify that in our documentation..14:30
* knurd leaves now14:30
smoogeby knurd14:30
knurdhave a nice day/evening/night/whatever everyone14:31
-!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk14:31
niriknight knurd_afk14:31
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | KojiAndBodhiForEpel | mmcgrath, _blah_ | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/KojiAndBodhiForEpel14:31
smoogestatus on this is that no one has had the time to work on this.. I am hoping to try and scope out what needs to be done on it myself.. but have been running into 'work reorgs' and such14:32
smoogethe ideas are 1) CentOS and its delays.. so that the build system is 'open', 2) patching koji to use a 'hidden' partition with RHEL(*) binaries in it14:32
nirik1) I have been told by a number of people is not an option.14:33
sticksterquaid: Can you write me some email about what, specifically, you need from that relationship? That might make it easier for me to find someone who wants to own it...14:33
nirik2) there are ideas, but no one working on it... perhaps once the fedora cycle gets less frantic people will have more time.14:33
* stickster can see from above that schedule updates are one need.14:33
quaidstickster: ok14:34
smoogenirik, I keep hearing that on #1.. but no specifics beyond the "hidden voices behind the cloaks at black sabbat meetings"14:34
niriksmooge: yes, it would be nice to get some sort of more concrete reason why this is a non starter...14:35
smoogeAnyway.. I think that we will need to look at #3, we go with #1 and aim for #2 in the case that our build box sleeps with the fishes finally14:35
nirikor try and get someone/anyone to work on the #2 code issues... _blah_ was trying to...14:36
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smoogeyes.. in either case, I think we have said pretty much what we said last time :)..14:37
nirikyeah. ;( Still an issue, still no solution in sight. ;(14:38
smoogestickster, can you get us a documented reason for why we need to stay with one set of binaries?14:38
stickstersmooge: ?14:38
nirikstickster: you want the background on this issue? :)14:39
quaidsmooge: I'm Cc;ing you on that email to stickster so you can give more details on some stuff like that14:39
sticksternirik: Correct.14:39
quaidyeah, I reckon we're going to need to give stickster some bg love14:39
nirikstickster: epel uses RHEL binaries to build against. Currently it does not use koji because koji requires all binaries to be in it and tagged. If we did that to RHEL, anyone could download RHEL binaries from koji.14:40
* smooge puts on his Barry White impersonation for stickster 14:40
nirikso, we need some way for koji to let us build against rhel, but not expose the binaries to the universe.14:40
smoogeor we need to use binaries that we can expose to the universe14:40
nirikwe could switch to CentOS binaries... but then we loose ppc (they don't support it) and we also get a delay after releases before they are ready.14:41
* quaid *cough* Free the RHEL bits!! *cough*14:41
nirikand also it's probibly pretty bad PR.14:41
quaidalso EPEL are not as supportable against RHEL binaries14:41
quaidwhich matters for our relationship with RHT GSS14:41
quaid(support services, for the TLA impaired)14:42
nirikright. Some enterprise people would balk at packages not built against official rhel binaries.14:42
sticksterIs EPEL considered "supportable" at this point? To what extent?14:42
quaidstickster: not supportable by RHT14:42
quaidwe do get *referenced* by RHT stuff14:42
f13like RHCE training14:42
quaid"Get hg from EPEL then ..."14:42
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quaidI clearly believe it is important for RHT itself to have EPEL built against RHEL binaries14:43
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jwbwe should be more explicit than EPEL.  We should be calling it Extras Packages for Enterprise Linux 4, Extras Packages for Enterprise Linux 5, etc14:43
* jwb ducks14:43
smoogejwb, that would be Extra Packages for Red Hat Enterprise Linux  EPRHEL which sounds like a drug14:44
sticksterquaid: smooge: What is option #3?14:44
sticksterSorry, nirik should have been second there.14:45
nirikI don't see one.14:45
nirikI guess keep going as we are.14:45
stickster<smooge> Anyway.. I think that we will need to look at #3, we go with #1 and aim for #2 in the case that our build box sleeps with the fishes finally14:45
quaidsmooge: techically, Enterprise Linux is the (tm)14:45
* quaid saw that #3 and was confused too14:46
smoogestickster, #3 is that we try to make ourselves flexible. If the server dies.. we will need to use solution #1 until we have patches that make koji secrative14:46
smoogeor we just stop producing EPEL until those patches become available.14:47
smoogethat is what I meant by #314:47
smoogeis there anything else on this?14:48
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | more mirrors | smooge | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc14:48
smoogeOk I sent this off to mirror list this week... and I think we have more mirrors signed up.14:48
smoogesorry mischan on that yeah..14:50
smoogeforgot to find out how we can report that number. will ask mdomsch on it14:50
smoogeMy final item on my list of things todo was: Marketing14:51
quaidyeah, that14:51
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | marketing: Logo, Posters, etc?| smooge | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc14:51
smoogeI put in a request for design logos on the arts page.14:51
smoogeHavent had anyone pick it up yet.14:51
quaidstahnma and I have complementary talks _proposed_ for the Red Hat Summit; hopefully both get in14:51
quaidand I want folks from RHT marketing to get involved because it seems kind of lame for only Fedora to be promoting this :)14:52
smoogeIf not.. could we propose them to Red Hat Magazine?14:52
* quaid knows that some ISV-oriented folks are aware but we haven't really pitched it to them as something to carry around for their partners14:52
quaidsmooge: good call!  we can certainly write a series of articles on EPEL14:53
quaidtechnical, business focuses, etc.14:53
smoogequaid, we need this to be a two way conversation with ISV's.. we need to know what they want and what they will help sponsor14:53
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quaidsmooge: right14:53
smoogedoes that make sense?14:53
smoogesorry slow typing.. wrist wrap on14:54
quaidyes it does14:54
quaidone vehicle for this is the Get Involved Guide14:54
smoogewe currently have a bunch of packages that we fedorans want.. but what do the ISV's want, and how can we better manage them as they have 'special' needs (the Zenos package is a good example)14:54
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smoogeIt is open source, but since it carries its own versions of certain packages it has a stronger need to sit in /opt so its not a 'core' item.14:55
quaidstickster: will you continue to tag-team with me on that?  This is a funny marketing/technical cross-over, which is why I grabbed Mr. North America (gregdek) into the EPEL conversation14:56
quaidthat == internal selling and support about EPEL, like what we are doing with TOmen14:56
sticksterquaid: I'm writing an email to the internal program list and cc'ing you on it14:56
smoogeI would like if we can pull in Mr Europe and Ms South America too14:56
sticksterI'll include gdk too14:56
sticksterWe have a Ms South America?14:56
quaidsmooge: one at a time, buddy!14:56
quaidstickster: doesn't everyone?14:56
smoogeI can dream stickster14:56
sticksterApparently so can quaid14:57
quaidstickster: in fact, let's see if Tomen wants to partner with us more here; he has a desire to be involved in Fedora and it would be a great help if he helped us negotiate the partner marketing stuffs14:57
smoogeAnyway.. I was trying not to be sexist in names.. and failed. sorry14:57
quaidok, I need to go do a quick two-minute honey-do14:58
quaidbrb for FDSCo14:58
smoogeOk lets go over it14:58
sticksterquaid: What does 'let's' mean -- are you emailing him, then?14:58
smoogeWe need to work with Red Hat internals on a couple of issues: ISV's, marketing, and build system. We need to put a date on when we are looking for this so that we don't fall off the radar14:58
* stickster needs to track who he's supposed to tag and with what.14:59
smoogeok.. I think we have another meeting in here... in 114:59
* smooge will close the meeting in 30 seconds14:59
smoogeand publish logs and todos unless I am wrong14:59
-!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule15:00
smoogeOk sorry if we ran over..15:00
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smoogeI have a work meeting I need to go to for the next hour.. I will be back at 20:30 UTC15:01
nirikthanks smooge15:01
sticksterNot sure if there's another meeting in here now anyway. Docs trying to figure out the split schedule.15:01
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sticksternirik: What is EPEL doing now? Some sort of mock building?15:03
nirikstickster: epel is using the old extras buildys... plague15:03
nirikso it's a different buildsys, and it can't use bodhi for updates...15:04
sticksternirik: So the pain of having to maintain the old buildsys in all its pain, as opposed to having a new buildsys in all *its* pain.15:04
sticksterArgh, one too many uses of "pain"15:04
quaid /me is back15:04
* stickster hates one line IRC entry.15:04
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quaidok, we're taking over here ...15:05
nirikyeah... the old buildsys is pain due to not working with bodhi, and also due to fedora no longer using it for anything, so there is not any development/shared infrastructure, etc.15:05
sticksternirik: Have you guys considered the current sysadmin problems that koji entails?15:05
sticksterThat goes for quaid too.15:05
quaidstickster: join #epel for ongoing chat, btw15:05
* nirik goes over to epel. 15:06
sticksterOK, I'll repost ther.e15:06
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo meeting15:06
jmbuserPresent I am15:06
quaidjmbuser is present, so am I15:06
* quaid gets the agenda rolling ...15:06
quaidstickster was here ...15:07
quaidso three of us at least15:07
quaidEvilBob: it's your topic up first, btw15:07
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-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Mailing list spam and moderation15:08
* stickster here15:09
quaidhmm, without Bob I don't think we get the full impatc15:10
quaidbut aiui15:10
quaidhe was concerned with list moderators stepping on each other15:10
quaidoutside of designating hours of coverage (horrors!)15:11
quaidI think we just have to be careful15:11
quaidand make sure we know what we are rejecting15:11
quaidfor this I use the Mailman WebUI to be sure15:11
jmbuserquaid: Is there any way to prevent the spam mail from cloggin up my webmail?15:13
jmbusers / cloggin / clogging /15:13
quaidalso ...15:14
quaidMike was going to adjust our filters15:14
quaidbut afaict he hasn't15:14
quaidI don't know quite what to do there and haven't found anyone who can help15:14
* quaid tries not to say M I K E ' s name so as to not distract him from FAS2 fun15:15
jmbuserThe signal-to-noise ratio drops drastically with spam and causes me to miss real information15:16
quaidI'm not sure if the spam filters drop the message before it gets to the queue15:17
quaidI'll drop mike an  email about the filters15:17
quaidok, that's about what we can do15:19
quaidjmbuser: are you using the web interface for moderating?  or still using the reply-to in the email stuff?15:19
sticksterHm, I haven't seen any spam on f-docs-l.15:19
sticksterMaybe it's my Gmail at work?15:20
jmbuserquaid: web interface15:20
quaidstickster: it doesn't land on list, it hits the moderation queue15:20
sticksterOh that.15:20
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quaidso it's moderator email that you see15:20
quaidok, anything else here?15:20
stickster*AH*.  I've been getting a BOATLOAD of that on f-a-b and f-board-l that I do have to moderate, so fair enough.15:20
quaidstickster: mike figured out a formula for using RHT set spam assassin headers15:21
sticksterquaid: I've been considering simply rejecting email from non-subscribers, at least on f-board-l.15:21
quaidI just sent him email, once I get the details, i'll publish and advertise to list admins15:21
quaidstickster: then you lose the people who we ask to reply to the board15:21
sticksters/non-subscribers/non-subscribers who aren't preapproved/15:21
quaidaiui, the SA headers are present and can be used by Mailman15:22
sticksterOK, not to drive this into the ground, sorry all.15:22
quaidI just want to avoid re-doing Mike's figuring here, so I'll see what he says, then try it on f-docs-l ...etc.15:22
quaidok, moving on ...15:22
sticksterIf it works, let me know and I'll follow suit15:22
* quaid looks back up 9 lines in his buffer15:23
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Access to wiki/Docs content and what content belongs there15:23
quaiddid we talk about this before?15:23
quaidI thought we agreed that, following the MW move15:24
quaid, we would deprecate Docs and remove ACLs15:24
quaids/Docs/Docs and Docs/Drafts/15:24
jmbuserquaid: sorry, can you clarify that a bit?15:25
quaidbased on the WikiGardening scheme15:25
quaidwe have two major areas:15:26
quaidproject-specific and content-specific15:26
quaidand within that a set of common trees to layout15:26
quaidVirt/QuickStart/9/ <== real thing15:26
* quaid always gets this order in correct15:26
quaidin other words, we are flattening the structure up a few levels and removing a Docs/ specific area15:27
quaidbecause the idea is, wiki = community documentation all by ytself15:27
jmbusermakes perfect sense15:28
quaidok, I thought we discussed this but I don't really see anything updated anywhere on that ...15:29
jmbuserAre there any more agenda items we should discuss?15:34
sticksterquaid: That's correct, we did agree to remove "Docs/" from the namespace.15:34
quaidsorry, yes ...15:34
* stickster dragged off again, sorry.15:34
quaidI was trying to figure some stuff out to no avail15:34
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- content updates15:34
sticksterDisagreement last week came with the question of hierarchies and how useful they are on the wiki.15:34
sticksterI can take them or leave them, no biggie.15:35
quaidwell, that's true15:35
quaidI guess ...15:35
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quaidI think we should define a standard that people can choose to follow15:35
sticksterI think search levels the playing field -- when we have a wiki where that's worth something :-)15:35
sticksterThen hierarchies make sense.15:35
-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- wiki structure15:35
quaidstickster: sorry, when do hier. make sense?15:36
sticksterSorry, I skipped Step 2 in my brain.15:36
stickster2. As long as there are Docs people to herd the cats (pages).15:36
quaidthat is sort of a given15:36
quaidwe must have more wiki watchers15:37
sticksterWell, I use "make sense" loosely15:37
sticksterI mean "are no less tolerable than any other method" :-)15:37
sticksterOtherwise we're building process for no purpose.15:37
quaidand more watchers == more guidelines so we aren't reteaching the same stuff15:37
quaidcodification of what is already there v. creating from scratch15:37
quaidshould Docs own this wiki project management function?15:38
quaidor do we need a Wiki SIG?15:38
* jwb sighs15:38
* quaid eyes jwb15:38
quaidspeak lad!15:38
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jwbi don't want to place more burden on Docs, but a Wiki SIG sounds like a failure for using a Wiki at all15:39
jwbWiki == anyone and everyone can change stuff15:40
quaidand as we make it easier to get a wiki account15:40
quaidthat means more of that15:40
quaidI guess I don't mind it as a Docs function, myself; it seems to make sense, in that a wiki == community documentation so is a Docs function, right?15:41
jwbthat's what i was thinking, but i might be misunderstanding your overall resources and scope15:41
quaidto answer my own question, i think we need to own it and work it hard and recruit for help whilst enabling the poor buggers15:41
jwbanyway, don't put too much weight to my comments15:42
quaidpart of that is encouraging active page "ownership" by content/subject matter experts15:42
quaidand having an army of fixers and watchers who keep things tidy :)15:42
jmbuserI think a wiki can be accessible to all and still have areas that need more structure and control with limited access15:43
jmbuseras well as WikiAntz15:43
* quaid just wants a CMS for the structure and control parts, but ph34rs that horse is a'dyin'15:44
quaidthis is a list discussion we need to get active on, imo15:44
* jwb likes the term WikiAntz15:44
quaidso I'm going to move it there, maybe after I clean up some unclarities in WikiGardening15:44
quaidpeople could watch pages by alphabet15:44
quaidjust set A.* in your watch area to watch all the A-stuff15:45
* quaid picks [XxYyZz.*]15:45
quaidok, then, if there are no objections to that motion ?15:45
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-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- content updates15:46
quaidI'll do the ones I know for the record, then EOF15:46
quaid* relnotes -- working with mdious, stickster and I are imparting knowledge; I did BIG updates to the processes last night, check DocsProject/WorkFlow to get started; DP/Wiki2XML tells all for now; updates are coming in; push more people to provide more updates15:47
quaidblog, blog, blog15:47
quaid* DUG -- worked with Marc yesterday to get him started with CVS skel; he has the wiki2xml notes; we're planning next picking a chapter (Introduction.xml) and doing it one step at a time; this lets us check the modern how-it's-done-in-this-Moin-version so we can update e.g. release-notes/devel/xmlbeats15:48
quaid* SMG -- still need feedback to jsmith on the conversion; with this feedback he may be able to give more help to the wiki2xml notes15:48
quaidif there is no one to speak for the others ...15:49
quaidI think the AG is in a similar boat as the DUG; we're just trying to get one done and converted15:49
sticksterThere are a lot of things hinging on people getting up to speed on XML conversion issues15:49
quaidDUG addendum -- paul and I have done some edits on there for finalization; wish there were more people who could do that or learn to do that final edit15:50
sticksterI just found out that I may be unavailable for a lot of Sunday, because my realtor wants an open house all day.15:50
sticksterquaid: +1 that, no one else has signed up even for wordsmithing.15:50
sticksterjmbuser: Pls. ensure that ^^ makes it into the minutes.15:50
quaidstickster: got a moment to drop a beg for wordsmithing to the list?15:51
quaidI mean, there are competent editors out there15:51
sticksterYou got it man15:51
quaidand the StyleGuide is clear15:51
* stickster composes15:51
quaidin fact, I listed out all the specific areas to check in the fixes I did last night15:51
* quaid pulls up a link15:52
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quaidok, meanwhile ...15:54
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-!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Any other bidness?15:54
glezos_afkLUG meeting took longer than usual :/15:54
jmbuserglezos_afk: Greetings15:55
glezos_afksorry guys15:55
quaidstickster: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#WikitoDocBookXML15:55
* stickster does a beg15:56
sticksterOK, well I missed that part, but the beg was for low-hanging fruit anyway.15:56
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quaidright o15:57
quaidif there is no more to discuss ...15:58
* quaid closing in 10 seconds15:58
quaid5 ...15:58
* quaid goes for the /topic, one sec15:59
jmbuserthanks, quaid15:59
quaidalways a pleasure15:59
* quaid goes off to sign a tenancy-in-common contract15:59
* jmbuser wished it was the logical equivalent of Friday night15:59
jmbuser s / it was / it wasn't /16:00
jmbuserfor him16:00
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* jsmith-teaching lurks16:00
mkranzHi folks!16:00
mkranzAnybody here for the EMEA Ambassador meeting? :)16:01
mkranzHi Max!16:01
* spevack waves16:01
jmbuserjsmith-teaching: just finished the meeting - moving to fedora-docs16:01
fcrippamkranz: yep ;-)16:01
jsmith-teachingPerfect timing16:01
quaidfeel free to just grab the /topic16:01
* jsmith-teaching unlurks16:01
quaidsince I can't get to the original on the wiki page atm16:01
-!- mkranz changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EMEA Ambassador Mtg16:01
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mkranzOkay, does not sound like hundreds of Ambassadors ... :)16:02
* spevack tries to pull up the agenda on the wiki16:02
tc1415hi all16:02
mkranzHi, welcome all to our monthly EMEA Ambassador call.16:02
Milanitohi all16:03
spevackMax Spevack16:03
mkranzMatthias Kranz16:03
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mkranztc1415: Ah, sorry, Ben!16:04
tc1415mkranz, thats ok16:04
Milanitoactually im not yet an ambassador i'm here to learn ^^ but i did ask to be one16:04
MilanitoMatthieuRondeau on the wiki16:05
mkranzMilanito: Merci beaucoup!16:05
spevackMilanito: welcome16:05
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mkranzOkay, then let's start with the first topic on the agenda.16:05
fcrippaMilanito: welcome!16:05
mkranz- News from Famsco16:06
spevackIf no one else from famsco is here, i can say a few words16:06
* mkranz hides since he has no clue.16:06
AndreasRI am here16:06
spevackAndreasR: why don't you go ahead, and then I16:06
AndreasRbut at the moment I ve nothing to say16:06
spevackwill add on16:06
spevackok, I'll go then :)16:06
spevackSo I am not an "official" member of FAMSCo, but one of the things that I am spending more of my time on now16:07
spevackis being a "mentor" and "helper" to FAMSCo16:07
spevackthere are a few things FAMSCo is working on16:07
spevackthat will be of interest to Fedora EMEA16:07
spevackthe first is making sure that every event can have financial support16:07
spevackFamsco will be sending an email to fedora-ambassadors-list soon16:07
spevackbut basically16:07
spevackif you look at the Events page on the Fedora wiki16:07
glezosDimitris Glezos16:07
* jmbuser got distracted - continue Max16:08
spevackyou will see that we break the year down into 4 quarters16:08
spevackand we are going to plan the funding for events based on those quarters16:08
spevackbecause that is how Red Hat handles its budgets16:08
spevackFor EMEA16:08
spevackthe only event left on the schedule until the end of may is linuxtag16:08
spevackand that has a "separate" budget16:08
spevackbut for the June - August quarter, we will try to have all worldwide ambassadors update the event page by May 1 with the events that will be in June-August, and then we will be able to give funding.16:09
spevackthe email that will come out soon will have more detailed explanations16:09
spevackany questions right now?16:09
spevackgo ahead16:09
tc1415I assume that that May 1st date is the deadline for having funding?16:09
spevackWell, we want to make a deadline of "getting the list of all events" 1 month before the beginning of the quarter.16:10
spevackSo March - May is one quarter16:10
spevackbut the only event left is LinuxTag16:10
spevackJune - August is the 2nd quarter, and we want to try to know by May 1 all the events we need to fund16:10
spevackso that there is 1 month to plan16:10
tc1415right, ok, just wondering16:10
spevacksimilarly, the 3rd quarter will be Sep - Nov, and we will try to have an August 1 deadline16:11
spevackok.. good question!16:11
spevackany other questions or comments?16:11
spevackgo ahead16:11
spevackhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents in case anyone doesn't know where the events page is.16:11
Milanitomight seem silly but i was wondering how do you define event because in my school we might be organising a linux event16:11
spevackthe definition is fairly loose.16:12
spevackin my opinion, an event is any time someone or a group of people16:12
spevackis going to speak about Fedora, or "represent" Fedora in an official kind of way16:12
spevackSome events are huge, like LinuxTag16:12
spevacksome events are small, like someone going to speak at a school or university.16:13
spevackfrom the perspective of framsco16:13
spevackwhat we want to know about is events that the Ambassador requires assistance either with planning, or with materials, or with content, etc.16:13
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spevackdoes that answer your question?16:13
Milanitoyeah pretty much the event will be more like a presentation of linux, with fedora ubuntu etc...16:14
Milanitoso i guess it can be considered as an event16:14
spevackThat is definitely something that we would be happy to assist with16:14
Milanitothats great then16:14
spevackfeel free to add it to the page, and then as it gets closer, we will discuss/plan for it16:14
spevackIf there are no other questions, we can move on to the next agenda item.16:14
* spevack looks at mkranz :)16:14
* mkranz feels observed.16:15
* spevack looks at AndreasR instead16:15
AndreasRnot at this point16:15
mkranzMax, anything else to add from Famsco?16:15
spevackno, that's all from me.16:15
mkranzThen next point of the agenda.16:16
mkranzAndreasR: go ahead!16:16
AndreasRI think it is important that we get the agenda points... if it is okay I want to say something at the end16:16
mkranzAndreasR: Yes, of course.16:16
mkranzNo problem.16:16
mkranzI think we will be through very quickly.16:17
mkranzNext point is:16:17
mkranz- Report current status of Ambassadors Materials Tracker and Ambassadors Membership Verification16:17
* mkranz hides because he had no fingers on the agenda.16:17
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spevackThe Tracker is empty.  Lots of swag is being made.  As requests come in, we can fill them.16:17
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mkranzzydoon: go ahead.16:18
zydoonas we will organising F launch day (s install party16:18
zydoonwe gonna need some media16:18
zydoonin Tunisia16:18
zydoonwould you please tell me how long will take to have them shipped,16:18
mkranzspevack: go ahead!16:19
zydoonso I can prepare my self, if I will burn them here16:19
spevackI think that we need to make media somewhere in EMEA that can ship to other places in EMEA.  And we make media in USA for places in USA.  But it is a waste of money to ship CDs across the ocean, and pay for customs.16:19
spevackFedora can pay the bill, but I need help from locals in Europe to find a good manufacturer and price.16:20
spevackif someone wants to work with me offline, I can explain the requirements and price range.16:20
mkranzglezos: You first, then me!16:20
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mkranzglezos: Or I would like to add something to the current thread.16:21
mkranzspevack: I could help out probably.16:21
glezosmkranz: oh, I was just wondering a similar thing to zydoon. I'm presenting at a medium-ish event in Athens next Friday and I was wondering if there was any possibility to have some media with such late notice.16:21
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mkranzAs you may know I am working for Red Hat in Munich, Germany.16:21
mkranzWe are producing the DVDs for our local CollStuffStore.16:21
spevackglezos: nothing i can do to help, unfortunately.  we're completely out of F8 media.  maybe you could offer to take people's usb keys and turn them into LiveUSB's?16:22
mkranzAnd we are able to get them produced for very small money.16:22
spevackmkranz: maybe you and i can talk offline then about options for Fedora 916:22
glezosspevack: excellend idea, thanks.16:22
spevackand LinuxTag16:22
mkranzglezos: How many DVDs do you need?16:22
mkranzspevack: Yep, we will do.16:22
glezosmkranz: 100-150 I guess.16:22
* spevack makes a note to follow up16:22
mkranzglezos: Please send me an email to mkranz@redhat.com with your contact details.16:23
mkranzglezos: When do you need them?16:23
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glezosIt's a FOSS community event, ie target audience not users but contributors, so I think a strong presence would be important. But I neglected letting you guys know earlier, too much happening recently.16:23
glezosmkranz: By Thu 20/316:23
mkranzglezos: Where are you located?16:24
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glezosmkranz: stuff could be shipped to Athens, Greece16:24
mkranzAh, I see, in Athens, Greece.16:24
glezosmaybe we could take this offline, and let the meeting continue.16:24
mkranzglezos: Pretty sure.16:24
mkranzzydoon: go ahead!16:24
zydoonwe will holding f9 launch day 10 days after release16:25
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zydoonso  if you think it's better I make the media locally, please tell me16:25
mkranzzydoon: That's a pretty tight schedule when it comes to procuding the DVDs here in Munich.16:25
spevackzydoon: if i were you16:25
zydoonI'll do it here16:25
spevacki would begin looking into a local producer.16:25
mkranzI don't think that we are going to make it in time.16:25
spevackbecause the F9 bits only are finalized 3 or 4 days before release16:25
mkranzThat's the problem.16:26
spevackit is very hard to turn around media in that kind of timeframe with any shipping16:26
zydoonit's not a problem :)16:26
spevackzydoon: we can help pay!  please stay in touch :)16:26
zydoonI'll handle it16:26
zydoonok thanks16:26
mkranzNext point in the agenda:16:26
mkranz- Report current status of upcoming Fedora Events in EMEA. See Fedora Events page.16:26
mkranzOkay, anybody here who could speak about16:27
mkranz  - Lolug Pillole at Lodi (formally "Fedora by Night")16:27
mkranz  - FOSDEM 200816:27
mkranz  - Chemnitzer LinuxTage 200816:27
mkranz  - (OpenExpo 2008 Berne)16:27
mkranzI mean, in addition to the great reports we have seen on our beloved mailing list.16:28
mkranzfcrippa: go ahead!16:28
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fcrippaI reported about "Fedora by Night"  event during last Fedora EMEA Abassadors Meeting (one month ago?)16:28
fcrippaI don't know why it's still in agenda16:28
fcrippaby the way, you can find all information and photos here:16:28
mkranzfcrippa: Do not know it, too.16:28
* spevack remembers hearing great things about Fedora By Night and FOSDEM.16:29
mkranzglezos: go ahead!16:29
spevack! (after glezos)16:29
glezosI found FOSDEM (once again) a *great* conference for EMEA to get together. I propose to try and somewhat advocate it as something like an annual meetup for EMEA and the L10n project.16:29
fcrippaglezos: +116:30
glezosFor example, we could try and cover some expenses for making sure the EMEA folks and the (soon to be created) Fedora L10n Steering Committee could be there.16:30
mkranzspevack: go ahead!16:30
spevackglezos: on the subject of FOSDEM16:30
spevackglezos: the CommunityArchitecture team (which I am now part of) has listed LinuxTag and FOSDEM as the two *major* European events.  Each gets its own separate funding.  We have $15,000 USD set aside for FOSDEM 2009, so your vision will be reality.16:31
spevackon the topic of events in general16:31
spevackI think the reports on ambassadors-list and Fedora Planet have been very high quality lately, and I am happy.16:32
mkranzspevack: I think we all are happy about this!16:32
spevackAndreasR always tells me I need to smile more :)16:32
mkranzOkay, last minor topic in this major bullet point is:16:32
mkranz  - News about LinuxTag 200816:33
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spevackwell, Gerold is not here right now, but I have been paying attention and I believe that everything is on target.16:33
spevackWe should be sure to get a big update next month, since it will be only 5 weeks before LinuxTag16:33
mkranzspevack: I will talk to Gerold about it.16:34
valentnpr. za placanje standova za konferencije16:34
mkranzBy the way, for all people who are interested:16:34
mkranzAndreasR: go ahead!16:35
spevackmkranz: you will be at LT?16:35
valentsorry wrong irc window16:35
AndreasRyou are right I talked to him yesterday... they are doing well16:35
AndreasRbut I think it is better to wait... till next week16:35
mkranzspevack: I will try to make it, yes.16:35
AndreasRGerold or someone else will give us an update16:35
spevackGerold is very busy at work right now, I believe.16:36
mkranzspevack: But as you know, it is the most important quarter in the history of ...16:36
mkranzNext point.16:36
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spevackmkranz: LOL16:36
mkranz- Status of the NPO16:37
mkranzWe have seen the reports about FOSDEM and the "side note" of the NPO :)16:37
mkranzAnybody here wants to add something to it?16:37
spevackI don't think any of the Board Members of the NPO are here right now.....16:37
spevackGerold, Jeroen, and Robert16:38
mkranzI would propose that Gerold should give an update/introduction about this next month as well!16:38
mkranzAndreasR: go ahead!16:38
fcrippaspevack: ...and Fabian  ;-)16:38
AndreasRI will talk tomorrow with gerold... he will be informed16:39
mkranzAndreasR: Great! Thanks a lot.16:39
mkranzLast point on our agenda: Open floor!16:40
mkranzAnybody wants to speak about anything?16:40
spevacki have one16:40
mkranzLet's gather some points.16:40
mkranzAndreasR: You wanted to add something?16:41
AndreasRis it the time16:41
* spevack will go after andreas16:41
AndreasRAs a famsco member I wanted to add a small (maybe mid size) comment -16:41
AndreasRAs you know currently famsco got some tasks for what they (we) are ... EventBudget... helping with events... etc... you can read it on the wiki...16:41
AndreasRbut everything will not work if we will not get information from you...16:41
AndreasRso as Francesco did it in the past I want to do it again -16:41
AndreasRWe need you to do this job - Information is the key.. and you are the source -16:41
AndreasRso please if there is a problem or anything else we can be helpfull please don't be (don't know that term)... let us know  - please send us mails - send us informations - reports... everything we can work with16:42
AndreasRMax something to add ....16:42
rscmkranz: sorry, I'm very late. Status of NPO is, that we'll be on monday at the register court to get e.V. and we can really start hopefully soon.16:42
jmbuserAs a fellow member of FAmSco, a big +116:42
mkranzAndreasR: +116:42
mkranzrsc: Thanks for the update.16:43
spevack+1 to Andreas also16:43
mkranzOkay, spevack go ahead!16:43
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spevackI just wanted to add quickly -- some of you already have seen on my blog (http://spevack.livejournal.com) but Red Hat will be sending me to Europe in May to take a leadership role in community building and fedora through the EMEA region.  Very exciting for all of us, and gives me a chance to work much closer with folks like mkranz and all our Fedora Ambassadors16:44
spevackMy job will be to lead Fedora/Red Hat community efforts throughout EMEA.16:44
mkranzMilanito: go ahead!16:45
* mkranz feels sorry for being unresponsive.16:46
Milanitook since I'm not yet an ambassador, it a message for the future, but I try to get involved in the community, actually working with the french trad team, and we are gathereing some people from the french forum in paris16:46
Milanitoand I'd be very happy to meet and share information with people based in europe16:47
mkranzMilanito: You probably know that there is a quite active Ambassador community in France?!16:47
Milanitoyeah I know I"ve also made contact with them16:48
mkranzvalent: You will be the next, just hang on for a second.16:48
Milanitobut since I'm here why not say so too ^^16:48
valentwhere will these EMEA meetings take place? Which countries? In Croatia for example I just statred to be ambassador....16:48
mkranzMilanito: You're welcome of course!16:48
mkranzI just wanted to make sure that you know about it :)16:48
Milanitofor example there will be next friday a meeting about fedora with some guy of the french forums16:48
mkranzvalent: What do you mean with "EMEA meetings"?16:49
valentwhere will these EMEA meetings take place? Which countries? In Croatia for example I just statred to be ambassador....16:50
valentand there isn't really some community but I'm willing to travel somewhere to a fedora emea meeting in a country not too far from croatia.16:50
valentI mean emea meetings with max16:50
spevackvalent: i will be traveling to many events throughout emea16:50
spevackvalent: one of the goals that we have with our increased funding for events16:50
spevackis specifically in order to help Ambassadors with travel costs from time to time16:50
spevackso that people who are spread in different countries16:50
spevackall have a chance to meet face to face16:50
spevackgo ahead16:51
valentThat is clear to me... but you still don't know where exactly16:51
valentthat is why I wanted to know.16:51
spevackwell, LinuxTag in Berlin is the next really big event that many Fedora people will be at.16:51
spevackbeyond that, I have to look at the list....16:51
spevackone of the things that we will discuss16:52
spevackas a community16:52
valentok, I'll be reading your blog and stocking you :)16:52
spevackonce I am settled in Europe16:52
mkranzspevack: By the way. Do you already know where exactly in Europe you want to settle? :)16:52
spevackis having one or two "Fedora Ambassador Days" where we gather people together.  Maybe one in Western Europe (using LinuxTag) and something else in Eastern Europe.16:52
mkranzNot that Europe is really big but ...16:52
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spevackmkranz: all the conversations I have had with HR have focused on my "home base" being the Netherlands.16:53
spevackbut i will do a good bit of travel to various places... compared to getting around the US I am not too worried :)16:53
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spevackany other questions for me?16:54
GeroldKahi all16:54
mkranzspevack: Ah, great. Bring some Regenstiefel then.16:54
spevackvalent: we'll stay in touch.  we know where to find each other ;)16:54
spevackhi GeroldKa!16:54
mkranzGeroldKa: Great to see you.16:55
GeroldKasorry for beeing late :-(16:55
mkranzGeroldKa: No prob at all.16:55
fcrippaGeroldKa: jusy in time16:55
spevackwell, unless GeroldKa wants to give a quick update about LinuxTag, I think we are almost done?16:55
GeroldKawas with a accident (Volleyball) at the hospital16:55
GeroldKabut not me :-)16:55
mkranzGeroldKa: Lucky you!16:55
mkranzGeroldKa: I wonder, if you would like to give a brief status of the preparation of LinuxTag?16:56
mkranzJust a quick one?16:56
mkranzAnd then we are through for tonight.16:56
GeroldKawell ...16:56
GeroldKaI asked the team for an update but I don't receive any responds till now16:56
GeroldKawe have a reserved booth ...16:57
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GeroldKawe have a lot of things planed16:57
GeroldKawe have a confirmed and reserved room contingent in Berlin16:57
GeroldKaand we have a lot of VIPs at Linuxtag16:57
GeroldKathat's all at the moment :-(16:57
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spevackAndreasR: tell Gerold to smile!16:58
GeroldKaunfortunatly I'm waiting for trouble shooting contest, also confirmation of FUDCon16:58
AndreasRsir , yes , sir16:58
mkranzGeroldKa: No prob at all.16:58
AndreasRGerold smile16:58
mkranzThat's a big smile, indeed.16:58
GeroldKaone "leader" to rule them all ........16:59
mkranzI'd like to finish then with the official part of the meeting.16:59
mkranzAnd then we might have some virtual beer together.16:59
mkranzAnything to add by anyone?16:59
* spevack will buy people real beer in Berlin16:59
spevackthank you everyone -- please email me with anything you need17:00
mkranzGeroldKa: go ahead!17:00
GeroldKaI take that point Max, and I'll remember you ....17:00
mkranzAh, okay.17:00
GeroldKaday by day :-P17:00
* mkranz is ringing the bell.17:00
spevackmkranz: thanks for leading the meeting17:00
mkranzSee you next time then.17:00
AndreasRhave a good night or whatever17:00
AndreasRwill need coffee17:00
zydoongood night everyone and thank you17:00
mkranzspevack: You're welcome!17:01
mkranzThank you all for attending this call tonight. I wish you a pleasant night - Gute Nacht! See/read you next month.17:01
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fcrippaBye bye17:01
* kital is back from Open Expo Day 1 17:02
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rsckital: was it nice?17:05
kitalyes - alan spend his whole day with us17:05
rscdid you use handcuffs that he stood so long at Fedora booth? ;)17:06
kitalhe was sitting17:06
kitaland we had fun17:07
kitali will write down17:07
rsccool :)17:07
GeroldKahave you had contact with Jens17:07
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GeroldKaabout the "troubles"17:08
rscGeroldKa: not yet. Am I lacking some information?17:08
GeroldKayou are17:08
rscahhh. Mail/redhat-spam shows, yes.17:09
GeroldKaread me e-mail befor you 'mv /dev/null' them17:09
rschm. Your mail got spam points.17:09
rschaha. You wrote too many question marks for to less text, thus spam.17:12
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valentgood night17:27
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 13 00:00:52 2008

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