| --- Log opened Wed Mar 12 11:02:17 2008 | ||
| f13 | woo | 11:02 |
|---|---|---|
| f13 | woo DST :/ | 11:02 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | meeting init | 11:02 | |
| -!- mcepl [n=mcepl@ppp1053.in.ipex.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:04 | |
| -!- mcepl [n=mcepl@ppp1053.in.ipex.cz] has quit [Client Quit] | 11:05 | |
| * jlaska lurks | 11:05 | |
| jwb | omar, meeting time | 11:05 |
| wwoods | okay so | 11:06 |
| -!- mcepl [n=mcepl@ppp1053.in.ipex.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:06 | |
| omar | jwb, k | 11:06 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | F9Beta blocker bugs | 11:06 | |
| wwoods | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=430962&hide_resolved=1 | 11:06 |
| wwoods | that's the f9beta tracker list | 11:06 |
| f13 | fully of tears | 11:07 |
| wwoods | I wouldn't necessarily consider them all blockers | 11:07 |
| f13 | yea, we need to cull the list | 11:07 |
| wwoods | should we split off a Beta Target, or just move stuff that doesn't meet blocker criteria to F9Target | 11:07 |
| f13 | just move it off | 11:08 |
| f13 | I purposfully never named the pre-release stuff with "Target" or "Blocker" in it. They're just trackers of things that would be nice to fix for beta | 11:09 |
| f13 | but things like the doxygen, totally not a beta issue | 11:09 |
| wwoods | yeah | 11:09 |
| wwoods | true. | 11:09 |
| wwoods | I think we can say as general policy: | 11:09 |
| wwoods | pre-freeze, the tracker bug is for issues we want fixed | 11:09 |
| wwoods | post-freeze, it's blockers-only | 11:09 |
| wwoods | still no update to mkinitrd, which means the default install still doesn't boot | 11:10 |
| f13 | what fun | 11:10 |
| mcepl | f13: isn't that doxygen thing problem for multilib? | 11:10 |
| f13 | mcepl: yes, but it's not critical. | 11:11 |
| f13 | mcepl: and it may already be fixed, waiting on input from the reporter | 11:11 |
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| wwoods | lessee: jeremy / notting / mether / nirik / rdieter / Lovechild ping | 11:12 |
| mcepl | then I would reconsider https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=377031 -- it is on savage videocard which almost nobody uses | 11:12 |
| buggbot | Bug 377031: medium, low, ---, Adam Jackson, ASSIGNED , graphical install image is centered but mouse input is not | 11:12 |
| wwoods | mcepl: yeah, let's run through the list real quick | 11:12 |
| wwoods | I agree that one can be droppoed | 11:12 |
| wwoods | 429713: dmraid devices not seen as dmraid | 11:13 |
| wwoods | ..needs retest | 11:13 |
| f13 | ahhh. | 11:14 |
| wwoods | and, honestly, that should be a blocker | 11:14 |
| wwoods | although it missed F9a and nobody screamed | 11:14 |
| wwoods | (that's not true.. a few people noticed) | 11:14 |
| f13 | I noticed | 11:15 |
| f13 | I'll be testing that today | 11:15 |
| wwoods | f13: thanks | 11:15 |
| wwoods | Bug 429758: Cannot upgrade F7 system with F9 alpha | 11:15 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=429758 high, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , Cannot upgrade F7 system with F9 alpha | 11:15 |
| wwoods | oh hai buggbot | 11:15 |
| wwoods | we don't have a good reproducer for this problem, which is why it's lingered | 11:15 |
| wwoods | low priority (upgrading from f7 and *fc5*? seriously) | 11:16 |
| wwoods | but we should try to get a reproducer | 11:16 |
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| wwoods | maybe I'll actually set priority on the bugs on the tracker list | 11:17 |
| wwoods | imagine that! | 11:17 |
| -!- atodorov [n=alexx@nat/redhat/x-540cac147cf6dac6] has joined #fedora-meeting | 11:17 | |
| wwoods | so yeah, this one will stay 'low' | 11:17 |
| wwoods | oh wait. I guess it shows 'severity' on the dep list | 11:18 |
| wwoods | wish it showed priority. blarg. anyway | 11:18 |
| f13 | hah | 11:18 |
| f13 | you can have it show if you view as list | 11:18 |
| f13 | custom view and all that | 11:18 |
| wwoods | ah yes | 11:18 |
| wwoods | [RFE]: Please let KDE users also use gnome-packagekit | 11:19 |
| wwoods | priority: urgent | 11:19 |
| wwoods | yeah. sure. | 11:19 |
| wwoods | anyway, sorry, getting back on target | 11:19 |
| mcepl | why? isn't there kde-packagekit? | 11:19 |
| tibbs | No. | 11:19 |
| mcepl | (or what is the name) | 11:19 |
| poelcat | wwoods: want me to try and repro 429758? | 11:19 |
| poelcat | and if I can't... close it? | 11:20 |
| tibbs | Although there is a QT interface. QPackageKit, I think. No idea how far along it is. | 11:20 |
| uosiu | hi all | 11:20 |
| tibbs | The gnome one would work fine if it wasn't hidden from KDE for no reason. | 11:20 |
| poelcat | wwoods i'll just do an f7 install--fully updated and then try to install latest rawhide? | 11:20 |
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| wwoods | poelcat: try it, sure, but if you can't reproduce it that's no proof that it doesn't exist | 11:20 |
| wwoods | obviously there's some other problem going on | 11:20 |
| wwoods | mismatched labels or some such | 11:20 |
| uosiu | I want to ask- EMEA region- what is it? Does it contains Europe? | 11:20 |
| wwoods | that we haven't figured out yet | 11:20 |
| wwoods | I think it stands for Europe, Middle East, Africa? | 11:21 |
| jwb | uosiu, yes it does but this isn't the right channel for that question | 11:21 |
| f13 | Europe, Middle East, Africa | 11:21 |
| wwoods | but yeah - we're in the middle of a QA meeting at the moment | 11:21 |
| jwb | i thought it was Asia? | 11:21 |
| f13 | or is that Asia | 11:21 |
| wwoods | no, asia is APAC | 11:21 |
| f13 | ah right | 11:21 |
| * jwb watches train derail | 11:21 | |
| wwoods | anyway | 11:21 |
| wwoods | poelcat: if you can engage the reporter(s) on bug 429758 and get a reproducer | 11:22 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=429758 high, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , Cannot upgrade F7 system with F9 alpha | 11:22 |
| wwoods | poelcat: then I will buy you a beer | 11:22 |
| wwoods | or something | 11:22 |
| viking-ice | Just installed FC-8 on the new toy ( 64bit Lenovo T61p 2.6 mhz Penryn ) did not go smoothly ( text mode - nopcmcia - runlevel 3 change driver to vesa no wifi ) gonna see if this is gonna be a problem with alpha as well.. | 11:22 |
| wwoods | someday we will have scorekeeping for this | 11:22 |
| wwoods | viking-ice: off-topic - we're working on the beta right now | 11:22 |
| f13 | viking-ice: please see #fedora | 11:22 |
| wwoods | don't bother with alpha | 11:22 |
| viking-ice | or beta then.. | 11:22 |
| wwoods | wait a week | 11:22 |
| wwoods | for beta. or if you want to be super-brave, help us test the beta | 11:23 |
| mcepl | tibbs: http://hughsient.livejournal.com/46192.html (but of course, I don't how real it is) | 11:23 |
| wwoods | OK next: Bug 429937 | 11:23 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=429937 medium, medium, ---, Peter Jones, MODIFIED , Can't find root on initial boot after install | 11:23 |
| viking-ice | if been running rawhide on i386 since it came out.. | 11:23 |
| wwoods | looks a lot like the mkinitrd errors | 11:24 |
| wwoods | jeremy sez it's fixed | 11:24 |
| eugene- | hello | 11:24 |
| wwoods | needs retesting | 11:24 |
| f13 | wwoods: this one isn't related to the encrypted PVs right? | 11:24 |
| f13 | wwoods: my installs yesterday were booting, without encryption | 11:24 |
| f13 | using UUID mount option | 11:24 |
| jeremy | wwoods: I fixed it on the machine bpeck was having problems with. it's mostly just a matter of "did I transcribe things correctly" :) | 11:24 |
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| wwoods | AFAIK, not encryption related | 11:24 |
| wwoods | jeremy: what was the problem? | 11:25 |
| jeremy | f13: I did an encrypted root install yesterday and it worked fine | 11:25 |
| jeremy | wwoods: multiple loads of scsi_wait_scan. we now only ever load scsi_wait_scan once. and after everything else | 11:25 |
| wwoods | gotcha | 11:25 |
| wwoods | so you could detect this problem by examining the initrd /init and looking for multiple scsi_wait_scan? | 11:25 |
| wwoods | or was this a modprobe/udev problem | 11:25 |
| wwoods | NEEDINFO bpeck, or CLOSED RAWHIDE | 11:26 |
| jeremy | the former | 11:26 |
| wwoods | will do | 11:26 |
| jeremy | and it just happens to show up on the boxes bpeck was testing on because they have more disks and take longer to spin up | 11:26 |
| wwoods | next: Bug 432683 | 11:26 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=432683 urgent, low, ---, Jima, NEEDINFO , Doxygen causes slightly different images on i386 and x86_64 | 11:26 |
| wwoods | doxygen multilib.. not blocker, IMHI | 11:27 |
| wwoods | err IMHO. (in my humble.. idiocy?) | 11:27 |
| wwoods | oh you already did | 11:27 |
| wwoods | thanks f13 | 11:27 |
| f13 | np | 11:27 |
| wwoods | Bug 433024 | 11:27 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=433024 low, low, ---, Jeremy Katz, MODIFIED , Anaconda traceback when trying to resize old LV to create new LV | 11:27 |
| wwoods | Needs retest | 11:28 |
| wwoods | I reported it, so Problem Belong wwoods! | 11:28 |
| wwoods | I'll update that this afternoon | 11:28 |
| * f13 waits for snapmirror to do it's thing. Hurray for signed packages. | 11:28 | |
| wwoods | Bug 433079 | 11:28 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=433079 low, low, ---, Dave Lehman, NEW , Installer traceback from F9 alpha on x86_64 using raid and encryption | 11:28 |
| wwoods | hasn't moved since Feb. 20 | 11:29 |
| wwoods | I'll put it in NEEDINFO reporter but IIRC Bruno has other problems (mkinitrd stuff) | 11:29 |
| wwoods | if he's gotten to mkinitrd.. then I guess he's gotten through the install | 11:29 |
| wwoods | heh | 11:29 |
| wwoods | he's doing some really weird partitioning | 11:29 |
| wwoods | like LVM+LUKS+mdraid | 11:30 |
| f13 | fun | 11:30 |
| jeremy | wwoods: dlehman was looking at some of those cases I think | 11:31 |
| jwb | wwoods, mkinitrd throws odd file errors for me but it's not causing me runtime problems | 11:31 |
| wwoods | jwb: that's good! | 11:31 |
| wwoods | Bug 435219 | 11:32 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=435219 low, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, MODIFIED , anaconda can't handle URL with port | 11:32 |
| wwoods | needs retest/confirmation | 11:32 |
| f13 | MODIFIED is a good sign | 11:32 |
| wwoods | I can do that really easily | 11:32 |
| wwoods | I'll confirm and close (or bug jeremy/clumens) | 11:32 |
| wwoods | bug 435228 | 11:33 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=435228 low, low, ---, Peter Jones, ASSIGNED , mkinitrd doesn't grab dm modules for LVs listed by LABEL or UUID | 11:33 |
| wwoods | grumblecakes | 11:33 |
| f13 | this one is still alive and kicking isn't it? | 11:33 |
| wwoods | pjones had me test a patch yesterday which seemed to solve the problem | 11:33 |
| wwoods | it's.. mutated a bit | 11:33 |
| wwoods | probably that bug should get split | 11:34 |
| wwoods | but alas | 11:34 |
| wwoods | the bug now is that the lvm tools return e.g. /dev/mapper/luks-sda2 instead of /dev/dm-2 | 11:34 |
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| wwoods | for LUKS PVs | 11:34 |
| wwoods | mkinitrd was not doing the right thing | 11:35 |
| wwoods | anyway, dunno if pjones committed his patch | 11:35 |
| wwoods | but no mkinitrd has been built | 11:35 |
| wwoods | jeremy: if you've got commit access (or can bother pjones) I'd really like that to be fixed today | 11:36 |
| wwoods | next: Bug 436226 | 11:36 |
| jeremy | wwoods: you'll probably have as much or more luck bugging pjones today as me. in ~ 15 minutes, I disappear for a few hours | 11:37 |
| jeremy | wwoods: if it's not built by tonight, though, I can do it | 11:37 |
| wwoods | jeremy: understoof | 11:37 |
| wwoods | uh, heh. understood too | 11:37 |
| jwb | wwoods, is pjones opposed to someone else committing, building? | 11:37 |
| wwoods | jwb: no idea. I know warren has commit access in pkgdb | 11:37 |
| wwoods | I'd be happier if a couple other people did | 11:38 |
| jwb | i have commit access everywhere | 11:38 |
| wwoods | I know we're working on RHEL5.2 stuff and whatnot | 11:39 |
| wwoods | there will continue to be times where pjones is swamped or otherwise unavailable | 11:40 |
| wwoods | I'd like to talk with him about who else can/should commit fixes when he's unable | 11:40 |
| jwb | at the moment, that list would probably consist of you :) | 11:40 |
| jeremy | wwoods: dlehman and I both have commit access | 11:40 |
| wwoods | I'm sure he's sick of me bugging him to fix stuff | 11:41 |
| wwoods | heh | 11:41 |
| wwoods | a simple "do it your own damn self" or "bug so-and-so" would work | 11:41 |
| wwoods | anyway, we can discuss that further after this meeting | 11:41 |
| wwoods | oh, and as a side note: minus several dozen points from me for mashing two different problems into the same bug report | 11:41 |
| wwoods | anyway, bug 436226: anaconda still installs packages marked as removed in kickstart | 11:42 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436226 low, low, ---, Chris Lumens, ASSIGNED , anaconda still installs packages marked as removed in kickstart | 11:42 |
| wwoods | oh there's buggbot | 11:42 |
| wwoods | need to ping clumens about that one | 11:42 |
| wwoods | 'cuz.. that should work | 11:42 |
| wwoods | jeremy: possible that was related to the "always installing GNOME" bug, or is this something new? | 11:42 |
| jeremy | wwoods: it's possible. might also be something else. if chris doesn't get to it today, I'll look at it this evening | 11:43 |
| wwoods | jeremy: cool | 11:43 |
| wwoods | Bug 436360: Traceback from nfs install | 11:43 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436360 low, low, ---, Chris Lumens, MODIFIED , Traceback from nfs install | 11:43 |
| wwoods | f13: you confirmed that one fixed - should it get closed or is there something else we're waiting for? | 11:44 |
| f13 | this is me isn't that? | 11:44 |
| f13 | oh, I verified his scratch build, I was waiting for a real build to hit rawhide, I'll close now | 11:44 |
| wwoods | kcool | 11:44 |
| f13 | mother fucking evdev!!!!!! | 11:44 |
| wwoods | Bug 436714 | 11:44 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436714 low, low, ---, Adam Jackson, ASSIGNED , F-9 VMWare video driver is broken | 11:44 |
| wwoods | vmware. yeah. | 11:45 |
| f13 | I can't click the resolution box and drag down to rawhide with my usb mouse | 11:45 |
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| f13 | selection is all gone to crap | 11:45 |
| * jeremy goes to get a free lunch | 11:45 | |
| f13 | wwoods: we use vmware video driver in qemu | 11:45 |
| wwoods | f13: that's *weird*, man. I have had no such trouble | 11:45 |
| jwb | wwoods, USB mouse? | 11:45 |
| wwoods | f13: oh! then I guess I care slightly more | 11:45 |
| f13 | wwoods: my built in mouse works just fine, it's only the USB mouse plugged in that goes nuts. | 11:45 |
| wwoods | f13: weird | 11:45 |
| jwb | i have the same | 11:45 |
| f13 | jwb: you aren't using a mighty-mouse are you? | 11:46 |
| wwoods | looks like poelcat and jds2001 are all over this one | 11:46 |
| jwb | f13, no, G5 mouse | 11:46 |
| f13 | jwb: ok, that's still an apple mouse. | 11:46 |
| jwb | i've no idea what a mighty-mouse i | 11:46 |
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| jwb | s | 11:46 |
| f13 | jwb: the apple mouse that has the scroll ball on top | 11:46 |
| f13 | and the ability to right/left click | 11:47 |
| jwb | f13, oh, yeah that's what i'm using | 11:47 |
| f13 | jwb: http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/ | 11:47 |
| jwb | yeah | 11:47 |
| jwb | are you using that? | 11:47 |
| f13 | jwb: HAH! I bet it's a bug specifically with this mouse! | 11:47 |
| jwb | that's fun... | 11:47 |
| jwb | why the hell are you using that on x86? | 11:47 |
| f13 | anyway, off topic | 11:48 |
| wwoods | anyway ISTR ajax mumbling something about this driver | 11:48 |
| wwoods | and there's plenty of eyeballs on it | 11:48 |
| f13 | wwoods: yeah, he was poking at kvm last night to work on it. | 11:48 |
| jwb | f13, i'll try a logitech mouse on my thinkpad. one sec | 11:48 |
| f13 | don't know the current status | 11:48 |
| wwoods | I'll leave it to poelcat / jds2001 to retest | 11:48 |
| f13 | jwb: the bizarre thing is that the mouse owrks just fine in Evolution, but nowhere else | 11:48 |
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| wwoods | poelcat: you hear me? I'm assigning you things to do without you here. HA HA HA | 11:49 |
| wwoods | Bug 436855 | 11:49 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436855 low, low, ---, Chris Lumens, CLOSED RAWHIDE, loader rejects all HTTP/FTP trees when run from netinst.iso | 11:49 |
| wwoods | ...was closed between the time I opened the bug list and now | 11:49 |
| wwoods | hooray | 11:49 |
| f13 | jwb: a different mouse works here. | 11:49 |
| wwoods | Bug 437009 | 11:49 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437009 low, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , Anaconda fails to properly create/destroy loop devices | 11:49 |
| f13 | wwoods: I did that I think. | 11:49 |
| jwb | f13, yeah i just tried some random optical mouse. works fine here too | 11:50 |
| wwoods | clumens was looking at that yesterday | 11:50 |
| f13 | wwoods: clumens is working on that one right now. | 11:50 |
| wwoods | so yeah | 11:50 |
| wwoods | I reported it | 11:50 |
| f13 | jwb: I'll update the bug | 11:50 |
| wwoods | I'll work with him and shepherd that one through | 11:50 |
| wwoods | Bug 437039 | 11:50 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437039 low, low, ---, Kristian Høgsberg, NEW , Synaptics default acceleration values are way slow for alps | 11:50 |
| wwoods | not a blocker. dropping to F9Target | 11:51 |
| f13 | yeah, that was going to be another entry in the .fdi file in hal-info I think | 11:51 |
| wwoods | also I'm reassigning it to ajax 'cuz he's working on it | 11:51 |
| wwoods | f13: ajax sez it turns out that it has to be done in-driver | 11:51 |
| wwoods | Bug 437041 | 11:52 |
| f13 | wwoods: LAME! | 11:52 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437041 low, low, ---, Panu Matilainen, MODIFIED , rpmtsOrder fails building x86_64 live image | 11:52 |
| poelcat | wwoods: which bug? | 11:52 |
| wwoods | poelcat: Bug 436714 | 11:52 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=436714 low, low, ---, Adam Jackson, ASSIGNED , F-9 VMWare video driver is broken | 11:52 |
| wwoods | f13: I know right? whatever, it's a sub-variant of synaptics | 11:52 |
| poelcat | wwoods: glad to | 11:53 |
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| wwoods | poelcat: awesome, thanks for the ack | 11:53 |
| mcepl | wwoods: mouse, keyboards and stuff like that should go to krh more than to ajax | 11:53 |
| mcepl | (although ajax might work on it) | 11:53 |
| wwoods | mcepl: yeah, but ajax was actively working on it (he commented as such in the bug) | 11:53 |
| mcepl | OK | 11:53 |
| wwoods | mcepl: but I'll keep that in mind in the future, thanks | 11:54 |
| * mcepl thinks that ajax has too much spare time that he is mixing himself into mouse business ;-) | 11:54 | |
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| wwoods | as for the rpmtsOrder bug | 11:54 |
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| wwoods | panu sez rpm-4.4.2.3-0.3.rc1 fixes that, and jeremy suggests sending mail to rel-eng to get it included in beta | 11:55 |
| wwoods | I don't see any mail to that effect | 11:55 |
| f13 | I don't either, but I'll happily tag. Perhaps that build will also fix the .gvfs issue | 11:56 |
| wwoods | f13: should we: a) bug panu to make sure that's the package he wants, b) just take the package, c) wait | 11:56 |
| f13 | I'm leaning toward B since it's late in Panuland | 11:57 |
| wwoods | AFAICT it's only a fix for 437041 | 11:57 |
| wwoods | http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=42657 | 11:57 |
| f13 | yeah, that's what it looks like. | 11:57 |
| wwoods | so it should be pretty safe | 11:57 |
| wwoods | it'd be nice to get a .gvfs patch for beta | 11:57 |
| wwoods | but for now it might behoove us to tag that fix so we can work on making live images | 11:58 |
| wwoods | anyway, your call | 11:58 |
| wwoods | finally, back to Bug 437048 | 11:58 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=437048 low, urgent, ---, Robin Norwood, NEW , [RFE]: Please let KDE users also use gnome-packagekit | 11:58 |
| wwoods | beta blocker: not so much, actually | 11:58 |
| f13 | no, but I"ll take it | 11:58 |
| f13 | if a build happens | 11:58 |
| wwoods | oh, I was talking about the KDE+gnome-packagekit bug | 11:59 |
| wwoods | but yeah, the .gvfs thing is not really a blocker | 11:59 |
| wwoods | but it's ugly and confusing enough that I'd definitely encourage pulling in a fix for that | 11:59 |
| f13 | I'll take a kde+packagekit thing if there is a build for it though | 11:59 |
| wwoods | we've already had several people trying desperately to figure out how to delete /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs | 11:59 |
| f13 | I don't think there is a build of rpm that'll fix .gvfs yet | 12:00 |
| f13 | it's fixed upstream, just no build in Fedora for it | 12:00 |
| wwoods | I thought I heard rumors that there was an upstream fix | 12:00 |
| wwoods | yeah | 12:00 |
| wwoods | fixed in rpm5 I'm sure | 12:00 |
| * wwoods cough cough | 12:00 | |
| jwb | in rpm5, /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs deletes you! | 12:00 |
| -!- fab [n=bellet@monkey.creatis.insa-lyon.fr] has quit ["Leaving"] | 12:01 | |
| wwoods | so hmm. Here's an interesting question. Is it a blocker if a new F9 feature (pk) doesn't work right in non-default desktop setups (KDE)? | 12:01 |
| jwb | pk? | 12:01 |
| wwoods | packagekit | 12:01 |
| wwoods | feels like a "no" but I'm sure people will argue otherwise | 12:02 |
| wwoods | I'll have to review release criteria and make sure they match my gut feeling here | 12:02 |
| jwb | most on FESCo took care to make sure Features accommodated KDE | 12:02 |
| wwoods | right. but do we block on KDE-only bugs? | 12:02 |
| jwb | sounds like a "drop it as a Feature" if it isn't fixed soonish | 12:02 |
| jwb | but i wouldnt' block the release | 12:02 |
| wwoods | that's the more general question | 12:02 |
| wwoods | I'm gonna move this to F9Blocker | 12:03 |
| wwoods | we can revisit it later | 12:03 |
| f13 | I don't think I would hold up beta waiting for a fix, however if there was a fix made available today/tomorrow, I would likely take it | 12:03 |
| f13 | (for beta) | 12:03 |
| wwoods | yeah, agreed | 12:03 |
| f13 | it's still testable, even in KDE, by running it manually | 12:03 |
| wwoods | so now we have 11 Beta blockers, only 1 in NEW | 12:04 |
| jwb | i thought i saw something about this go by on the lists. it's being worked on, isn't it? | 12:04 |
| f13 | I suppose compiz not working on Intel graphics isn't a beta blocker? | 12:04 |
| wwoods | 4 ASSIGNED, 5 MODIFIED, 1 NEEDINFO | 12:04 |
| f13 | oh, I do need to make something a beta blocker, NetworkManager barfs on routes after dhcp renew | 12:04 |
| f13 | jwb: It's being talked about... | 12:04 |
| wwoods | file it! | 12:04 |
| jwb | f13, also, bumping fedora-release? | 12:05 |
| f13 | wwoods: I am, dan already fixed it upstream, there just isn't ab uild for it yet | 12:05 |
| f13 | jwb: yes, fedora-release needs bumping. | 12:05 |
| f13 | 8.92 right? | 12:05 |
| wwoods | oh yeah - fedora-release version number should be 8.92 | 12:05 |
| f13 | wwoods: can you file that one? (: | 12:05 |
| wwoods | 0 = pre-alpha, 1 = alpha, 2 = beta, 3 = PR | 12:05 |
| wwoods | will do | 12:05 |
| wwoods | as for compiz on intel.. nnnggh. | 12:06 |
| wwoods | WORKSFORMEKINDA | 12:07 |
| wwoods | but not really (alt-tab crashes X) | 12:07 |
| jwb | so why is compiz blocker for anything? | 12:07 |
| f13 | I just get a black screen of textures | 12:07 |
| f13 | jwb: it's a pretty bad regression | 12:07 |
| wwoods | but I don't know whether this is something that's got an imminent fix | 12:07 |
| jwb | f13, it was a rhetorical question :) | 12:07 |
| wwoods | or something that'll be a week or two of debugging to fix | 12:07 |
| f13 | wwoods: yeah, I'll go bug krh about it, but I don't think it's beta blocking material. | 12:07 |
| f13 | He's been "working" on it for a week or so already | 12:07 |
| wwoods | I'm inclined to agree | 12:08 |
| wwoods | yeah, I think it's yet another "not blocker, but I'd take a fix if one landed" | 12:08 |
| wwoods | I think it's probably a F9Blocker though :/ | 12:08 |
| jds2001 | as for the bug in NEW, I can try a F7->rawhide tonight if that would help. Let me know what data is helpful if it fails. | 12:08 |
| wwoods | jds2001: as I was telling poelcat, I'd bet money that it's something wonky with their partition table / filesystem labels / fstab | 12:09 |
| wwoods | so.. you know, comparing the output of blkid and /etc/fstab and stuff | 12:09 |
| wwoods | will probably be necessary to try to reproduce | 12:09 |
| wwoods | confirmation that it works under normal circumstances would be really good | 12:09 |
| poelcat | jds2001: lol... you were thinking vmware like me I bet | 12:09 |
| poelcat | jds2001: how many guests do you currently have? | 12:10 |
| jds2001 | yep, especially since it's talking bout LABELS of /1 and stuff | 12:10 |
| jds2001 | poelcat: bout 20 or so | 12:10 |
| jds2001 | it's on a rhel4 box w/8GB RAM. Got it cheap from the Dell outlet :) | 12:10 |
| wwoods | now we have 3 bugs in new! wee | 12:10 |
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| jwb | in semi-related news, i have a ppc compose going right now | 12:11 |
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| poelcat | has anyone been able to xen installs? | 12:11 |
| f13 | brb | 12:11 |
| jwb | assuming it doesn't fail, i'll try testing it and seeing if omar can as well | 12:11 |
| poelcat | someone on #fedora-qa said it was broken last nihgt | 12:11 |
| mmcgrath | poelcat: ? | 12:11 |
| mmcgrath | poelcat: sorry, ignore that. | 12:11 |
| poelcat | f8 doing a xen install of rawhide | 12:11 |
| wwoods | poelcat: f9b host, or f9b guest? | 12:11 |
| wwoods | ah | 12:12 |
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| wwoods | oh we might be bonking into another meeting now | 12:12 |
| wwoods | hm, no, we've got 'til 1700UTC. disregard | 12:13 |
| wwoods | anyway, that's the blocker list | 12:13 |
| wwoods | hooray for ppc compose | 12:13 |
| * jwb will assume that was a genuine hooray | 12:13 | |
| wwoods | let's segue into.. the test plan | 12:13 |
| wwoods | jwb: def! I've been anxious to have something to run on my g5 for a while | 12:13 |
| jwb | wwoods, ah :). rawhide has been decent on mine as of last friday | 12:14 |
| wwoods | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/Beta | 12:14 |
| wwoods | that's the results page for Beta | 12:14 |
| wwoods | I think I'm gonna change it to add a "tester" column | 12:14 |
| wwoods | so people can get credit for their work | 12:14 |
| jwb | nice | 12:15 |
| wwoods | I should file a bug about stage2=hd:XXX not working | 12:15 |
| wwoods | PreUpgrade is hard to test without it | 12:15 |
| wwoods | and that's kind of a new Upgrade Path -> new thing to test | 12:15 |
| wwoods | OTOH you can test it without stage2=hd:XXX.. so maybe I need to get the bastard packaged up | 12:16 |
| wwoods | and write up a test case for it | 12:16 |
| wwoods | also it needs a new name | 12:16 |
| wwoods | fedora-easy-upgrade or something | 12:16 |
| wwoods | which abbreviates to FEU, which I'm sure the francophones will be amused by | 12:16 |
| wwoods | anyway, yes, I'm going to add a Tester field to the test results page | 12:17 |
| wwoods | you're all welcomed and encouraged to run the test cases and fill in results (and/or suggest changes) | 12:17 |
| EvilBob | system-config-upgrade | 12:18 |
| wwoods | EvilBob: heh! | 12:18 |
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| EvilBob | Don't name things "fedora" | 12:18 |
| wwoods | maybe I'll just name it apt-get-dist-upgrade | 12:18 |
| wwoods | EvilBob: it's fedora-specific, though | 12:19 |
| wwoods | other s-c-* tools (e.g. s-c-display) are not | 12:19 |
| wwoods | anyway | 12:19 |
| wwoods | yes. test stuff. report results. go forth and conquer. | 12:19 |
| f13 | back. | 12:19 |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/Beta | 12:20 | |
| wwoods | uhh yeah | 12:20 |
| wwoods | late on the topic change | 12:20 |
| wwoods | but that's what we just talked about. heh. anything else on that topic | 12:20 |
| * wwoods takes that as a no | 12:20 | |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA | misc. | 12:21 | |
| wwoods | any other QA-related stuff we should talk about? | 12:21 |
| wwoods | let's call that a no | 12:22 |
| wwoods | thanks for the time, folks | 12:22 |
| wwoods | GO FORTH AND DESTROY (bugs) | 12:22 |
| -!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule | 12:22 | |
| wwoods | f13: heh thanks. do you have that aliased or something? | 12:22 |
| f13 | wwoods: ys | 12:22 |
| jds2001 | heh /mt for me :) | 12:22 |
| wwoods | you clever people | 12:23 |
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| wwoods | okay, time for me to rock my 'things to (re)test' list | 12:24 |
| wwoods | and also eat the bejesus out of some lunch-type food units | 12:24 |
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| f13 | yes | 12:26 |
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| poelcat | jds2001: can you test that F7 thing... i just hosed my vmware setup :) | 12:33 |
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| -!- jds2001 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora BugZappers Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Meetings/Agenda-2008-Mar-12 | 12:58 | |
| jds2001 | who's here? | 13:00 |
| jds2001 | let's get this party started :) | 13:00 |
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| * nirik is sorta around, but dealing with about 3 things at once. | 13:01 | |
| * poelcat here | 13:01 | |
| * stickster here fwiw | 13:01 | |
| poelcat | stickster: joing the BugZahpahs? | 13:01 |
| stickster | I want to at least see how I can pitch it to a larger group | 13:02 |
| poelcat | that's what they're called in the NE ;-) | 13:02 |
| stickster | That makes me think we're shooting lobsters | 13:02 |
| jds2001 | lol | 13:02 |
| stickster | They call those "bugs" up there in Yankee-land | 13:02 |
| jds2001 | heh :) | 13:03 |
| jds2001 | so this meeting is supposed to discuss tehse proposals, iwas hoping for a better turnoout :/ | 13:04 |
| jds2001 | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnPoelstra/BugzillaExtremeMakeOver and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping | 13:04 |
| poelcat | jds2001: i got it added to the fesco schedule for tomorrow too | 13:05 |
| jds2001 | cool, saw that. | 13:05 |
| poelcat | only constructive feedback I've gotten so far (in private mail) | 13:05 |
| poelcat | was "what about tracking RFEs or Feature" bugzillas | 13:05 |
| poelcat | suggestion was that those should always stay open and rawhide | 13:06 |
| jds2001 | yep, so long as they start with RFE we can exclude them easily | 13:06 |
| jds2001 | same with Package Reviews | 13:06 |
| jds2001 | so long as we're just providing an advanced query to eng-ops, that's quite doable. | 13:07 |
| jds2001 | actually i wonder if ppl are using the FutureFeature keyword like they should | 13:08 |
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| jds2001 | yep, 431 bugs w/that keyword open | 13:09 |
| poelcat | well, then they complained that they shouldn't use the subject line or keyword :-/ | 13:09 |
| jds2001 | huh? How do wwe tell then? | 13:10 |
| * poelcat is puzzled too | 13:10 | |
| poelcat | kind of like some of the feedback on the list | 13:10 |
| poelcat | "that is a bad idea... it won't work" | 13:10 |
| poelcat | "i don't have any suggestions on how to change it either" | 13:10 |
| poelcat | given our current environment I think FutureFeature is the best way to go | 13:11 |
| jds2001 | well i just did a FutureFeature OR ^RFE, and it raised the number to 542 | 13:12 |
| poelcat | jds2001: more good stuff to add to the procdures somewhere | 13:12 |
| poelcat | jds2001: hopefully tomorrow's meeting will draw more attention to it... or maybe it is just really good ;-) | 13:13 |
| jds2001 | hehe :) | 13:13 |
| poelcat | we can move on if you want | 13:13 |
| * poelcat wants to talk about RSS hawtness | 13:13 | |
| jds2001 | alrighty | 13:14 |
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| poelcat | I guess it makes sense to add Feature exclusion to cleanup and regular procedures | 13:14 |
| jds2001 | yeah, and likely package review too | 13:15 |
| poelcat | on the other hand does it make sense to keep a feature open forever if it is never going to be implemented? | 13:15 |
| jds2001 | but you exclude features you end up with cruft like bug 11539 | 13:15 |
| buggbot | Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11539 medium, low, ---, Bill Nottingham, ASSIGNED , /sbin/ifup should not allow everyone to bring interface up/down | 13:15 |
| poelcat | true | 13:16 |
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| jds2001 | what sucks is the modified date of every bug was changed as the result of versioning changes | 13:18 |
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| jds2001 | so I can't just say show me stuff that hasn't been touched in a year | 13:18 |
| jds2001 | :( | 13:18 |
| poelcat | you can blame me for that :) | 13:18 |
| poelcat | at least we don't have "test3" as a version any more :) | 13:19 |
| jds2001 | no, it's a good thing :) | 13:19 |
| poelcat | I propose that we backburner feature thing and see what other feedback comes in | 13:19 |
| jds2001 | yep | 13:20 |
| poelcat | or go the more aggressive route of closing them and seeing if we "hear" from people | 13:20 |
| jds2001 | RSS feed improvements are forthcoming | 13:20 |
| poelcat | that seemms like a really good solution!? | 13:20 |
| poelcat | the whole RSS thing | 13:20 |
| jds2001 | yeah | 13:20 |
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| poelcat | can you create a wiki page so people can create their own custom queries? | 13:21 |
| * jds2001 wonders if that code is on parner-bugzilla yet | 13:21 | |
| poelcat | wiki page w/ instructions on how to do it | 13:21 |
| jds2001 | there's just an RSS link at the bottom of the search | 13:21 |
| poelcat | so why do you put it in feedburner? | 13:21 |
| jds2001 | you could subscribe to that. The URL is about a mile long, that's why i used feedburner for the "advertised" ones | 13:22 |
| poelcat | right | 13:22 |
| poelcat | so once the fix is in people can watch single components? | 13:22 |
| jds2001 | they can do that today with the 'advertised' feeds | 13:23 |
| poelcat | could a maintainer make a feed to see all bugs where they are assigned to? | 13:23 |
| poelcat | then what does that RFE address? | 13:23 |
| jds2001 | what fields are included in the feed | 13:23 |
| jds2001 | like the component isn't there today, making it fairly useless for some ppl | 13:24 |
| jds2001 | hmm, doesnt look like that code is on partner-bugzilla yet | 13:26 |
| poelcat | hmm in my feed reader I only see the bz# and descrition | 13:26 |
| jds2001 | if you open it, you'll see opened date, assignee, severity, priority, status, and changed date | 13:27 |
| jds2001 | those fields will change on tomorrow.... | 13:27 |
| jds2001 | stickster: wanna talk about your ideas for expanding the audience? | 13:29 |
| * jds2001 is all ears :) | 13:29 | |
| stickster | Well, I was wondering if you guys had seen this: | 13:30 |
| stickster | http://git.mg8.org/kwestie/ | 13:30 |
| stickster | Unfortunately, still looking for a "show off the goods" site | 13:30 |
| stickster | It's not really feasible as a suggestion, just interesting from the community bug perspective | 13:31 |
| stickster | This is something Bryan Clark is working on, an email-driven bug tracker | 13:31 |
| stickster | Simplified interface, intensely XML driven, and consumable by other instances | 13:31 |
| jds2001 | so, the triage team would take this stuff and throw it in bugzilla? | 13:32 |
| stickster | So you can basically set up a Kwestie bug tracker of your own that takes feeds from other kwestie bug trackers, so it's like Bugzilla-meets-RSSreader. | 13:32 |
| jds2001 | that's fairly cool. | 13:33 |
| stickster | Newer bugzilla probably has better RSS/XML capabilities and might be able to tie better with this. | 13:33 |
| stickster | One of the questions Kwestie answers is, "how does my customer/user enter bugs without having a PhD in Bugzilla?" | 13:34 |
| jds2001 | i dunno. I do know that RH bugzilla support xmlrpc methods that upstream didn't. | 13:34 |
| jds2001 | I think they're trying to get that stuff upstream w/3.2 | 13:34 |
| stickster | Anyway, this is a side issue. | 13:34 |
| stickster | I just wanted you guys to have a link to it -- it's Ruby on Rails I think, so if you know how to set that stuff up, you should be able to take it for a test drive. | 13:34 |
| * stickster scratches his head. | 13:35 | |
| poelcat | stickster: way back when wwoods proposed a special start page for Fedora, but I think issue was someone w/ skilz to implement it | 13:35 |
| poelcat | i think that is our best solution for now | 13:35 |
| stickster | sure... again, not proposing that we do anything with Kwestie at this time. | 13:35 |
| poelcat | it would mask all the unnecessary stuff | 13:35 |
| stickster | Just wanted to see if you guys had heard of it already. | 13:36 |
| wwoods | we're not moving to a new bug tracker | 13:36 |
| wwoods | that's ridiculous | 13:36 |
| jds2001 | the pervasive issue that i've seen with bugzilla is that we have 5000 components | 13:36 |
| stickster | wwoods: Right. | 13:36 |
| poelcat | wwoods: no one is suggesting that :) | 13:36 |
| wwoods | just making sure that's clear | 13:36 |
| stickster | But thanks for clearing it up ;-) | 13:36 |
| poelcat | wwoods: do you have a pointer to the start page ideas you had? | 13:37 |
| wwoods | yeah. we don't need to present all 5000 components to the user. we could have a smart client-based pygtk tool | 13:37 |
| jds2001 | but the thing is, we have 5000 components because we *have* 5000 components. | 13:37 |
| wwoods | with wizards and gizards and auto-log-grabbing | 13:37 |
| stickster | Like a better bug-buddy? | 13:37 |
| wwoods | yes. like a better bug-buddy. | 13:37 |
| wwoods | make days 30 hours long and I'll finish it in a month | 13:37 |
| stickster | heh | 13:37 |
| * stickster waves wand *zap!* | 13:37 | |
| poelcat | wwoods: when/if we could secure an intern... do you think that would be a viable project for them? | 13:38 |
| wwoods | we should write up a spec for such an app | 13:38 |
| jds2001 | we were thinking that's something an intern could do. | 13:38 |
| wwoods | and do some UI mockups | 13:38 |
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| wwoods | but yes | 13:38 |
| wwoods | given a spec to code to and some ui mockups | 13:38 |
| wwoods | definitely | 13:38 |
| wwoods | well. probably. I'm making some unsupported assumptions about intern skillllz | 13:39 |
| poelcat | i naively added that to the intern page someone created | 13:39 |
| poelcat | as a possible project | 13:39 |
| poelcat | wwoods: didn't you scope something out to the websites mailing list? | 13:39 |
| jds2001 | gack, the one im not on :) | 13:40 |
| wwoods | maybe? probably? | 13:40 |
| wwoods | maybe like a year ago I had a mockup simplified bug entry page | 13:40 |
| wwoods | that is Not The Solution | 13:40 |
| wwoods | couldn't hurt though | 13:40 |
| wwoods | if I had time for either I'd work on the clientside app first | 13:41 |
| poelcat | wwoods: that's what I was remembering :) | 13:41 |
| jds2001 | wwoods: if it's not too much of a problem, ask dkl to push the new RSS code to partner-bugzilla | 13:43 |
| jds2001 | i still dont see it there, and it's supposedly going out tomorrow (unless i misunderstood) | 13:44 |
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| jds2001 | anything else? | 13:46 |
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| * poelcat is good | 13:47 | |
| nirik | I might have something... ;) | 13:47 |
| jds2001 | shoot :) | 13:47 |
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| nirik | not sure if it's bugzapper, but I think related... Would it be possible to generate a list of 'these comonents need maintainer help' ? ie, identify where we could get more maintainers for some components that get lots of bugs? | 13:48 |
| jds2001 | sure | 13:48 |
| jds2001 | i do some reporting already on that sort of stuff. | 13:48 |
| nirik | or even a top 10 list of 'these got the most new bugs last week'... | 13:48 |
| poelcat | nirik: we were thinking of collecting data like that as we start the cleanup | 13:48 |
| nirik | ok, cool. I think some reporting like that posted to the devel list could help out... | 13:48 |
| poelcat | like a before/during/after snapshot | 13:48 |
| poelcat | to see where the pain points are | 13:49 |
| jds2001 | if you want a weekly report to f-devel of bugs filed in the last week, that can certaintly be arranged. | 13:49 |
| poelcat | nirik: my only fear is that the data might get taken in the wrong way | 13:49 |
| nirik | yeah, it would need some explaining... | 13:49 |
| nirik | don't want all bugs, but perhaps a breakdown by component/release or something... | 13:50 |
| nirik | I'm sure we know the kernel gets a lot of bugs, but it might identify some other component that only has a single maintainer or something where we could go help. | 13:50 |
| jds2001 | yeah, i privately have some reports targeting rawhide | 13:50 |
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| jds2001 | take a look in ~jstanley/public_html on fedorapeople.org if you wanna see the data :) | 13:51 |
| nirik | cool. | 13:52 |
| jds2001 | three are some spreadsheets there that aren't linked to anywhere. | 13:52 |
| jds2001 | let me know if something like that is what you wanna see. | 13:53 |
| jds2001 | i have a report at home of last month, but it's sorta tainted due to gcc43 | 13:53 |
| poelcat | nirik: as a FESCo-er can you give any guidance on what stuff we need to take there for review or not? | 13:54 |
| nirik | I think surely the bug closing/livecycle/moving forward should get approved... | 13:54 |
| poelcat | right now we're taking the approach that anything highly disruptive or that we need to get the word out on should be brought up there | 13:54 |
| nirik | yeah, that seems reasonable to me. | 13:54 |
| poelcat | okay thanks | 13:55 |
| jds2001 | hopefully the discussion tehre will be lively tomorrow. | 13:56 |
| * jds2001 is disappointed with the lack of feedback thus far. | 13:56 | |
| nirik | yeah, I was expecting more flames... | 13:56 |
| jds2001 | of course everyone will scream bloody murder when it actually *ahppens* | 13:56 |
| nirik | perhaps people just didn't see it... | 13:56 |
| nirik | you could post to the fedora list. :) Get end user feedback. | 13:57 |
| jds2001 | that might not be a bad idea. | 13:57 |
| jds2001 | except that my normal account isn't subscribed. I have another one that is. | 13:58 |
| jds2001 | WAAAYYY too high volume and s/n for me :) | 13:58 |
| poelcat | jds2001: i can post there if you like | 13:58 |
| jds2001 | nah, i can do it, just wont come from my normal acct. | 13:59 |
| -!- rdieter_away is now known as rdieter | 13:59 | |
| * poelcat is subscribed and behind 2,000 messages | 13:59 | |
| jds2001 | lol better than my 5,000 threads :) | 13:59 |
| poelcat | jds2001: fwiw I think it best to just post the links and not the raw wiki text | 13:59 |
| jds2001 | for there, yeah | 14:00 |
| smooge | hi guys how long til end of meeting for you? | 14:00 |
| -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 14:00 | |
| poelcat | smooge: now :) | 14:00 |
| jds2001 | i guess we can move :) | 14:00 |
| smooge | thanks | 14:01 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL Sig meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process | 14:01 | |
| smooge | Hi everybody; who's around for the EPEL meeting? | 14:01 |
| * nirik is still here. | 14:01 | |
| * knurd is for a few minutes | 14:01 | |
| smooge | ok I forgot to update http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines.. but they still seem relevant | 14:02 |
| * mmcgrath will likely be only sort of here, still working out the FAS2 bugs | 14:03 | |
| smooge | anyone else here? quaid? | 14:03 |
| smooge | I understand.. this meeting should be pretty short | 14:03 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | fill the steering committee; one self-nomination: Xavier Lamien| all | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc | 14:04 | |
| smooge | I had asked Xavier for a self-introduction to the list, but have not heard from him on this.. anyone talked with Xavier? | 14:05 |
| nirik | I haven't... | 14:05 |
| * knurd hasn't | 14:06 | |
| -!- No5251 [n=No5251@e180000070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Kein Anschluss unter dieser Nummer!"] | 14:06 | |
| smooge | Any suggestions on the next step to do? Look for more nominations.. look over what our 'board' needs are and staff accordingly? I could not find where it says the board must be X members.. but my search-foo could be poor | 14:07 |
| nirik | well, it's mostly anyone interested I think... | 14:07 |
| nirik | perhaps send him a private email and ask again? and deffer till next time? | 14:08 |
| knurd | we never had a hard limit | 14:08 |
| knurd | the goal afaics always was 7 -- if there are one or two more it's no problem; less actually is a problem imho | 14:09 |
| knurd | right now you are 7 iirc | 14:09 |
| smooge | knurd, ok thanks. I was wondering if there were general guidelines on how many people were supposed to be there, and what quorum was. | 14:09 |
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| knurd | as I said, the goal was 7, but the world still rotates if we are a few more or less | 14:09 |
| * nirik nods | 14:10 | |
| knurd | I actually think a few more is better, as long as they are active in either the meetings or the list | 14:10 |
| smooge | Ok I will send out another private email, one to the list, and then put this for the next meeting. | 14:10 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | Status Reports | all | Build System, Packages in waiting etc | 14:11 | |
| smooge | Ok I sent out a general status report on Sunday, though not UTC Sunday :(. I will try and get that more automated | 14:12 |
| smooge | mmcgrath, are there any issues with the current build system? | 14:12 |
| knurd | smooge, what do you mean by "Packages in waiting"? | 14:12 |
| knurd | we can do pushes more often if there is a need to | 14:13 |
| * nirik has no knowledge of problems with the buildsys. Other than its still plague. ;) | 14:13 | |
| mmcgrath | smooge: buildsys is on an old and unsupported box. | 14:13 |
| nirik | I've been doing pushes about every other day or so... or trying to. | 14:13 |
| smooge | Packages that are not in testing yet because they are waiting for other issues: rt3 and zenoss coems to mind | 14:13 |
| * quaid is back, sorry I was delayed | 14:13 | |
| * smooge takes the Eric Troan noodle and slaps quaid | 14:13 | |
| mmcgrath | and the builders have been crashing lately from some sort of recursive call to texpdf. | 14:13 |
| mmcgrath | those are the only two issues I know of. | 14:14 |
| nirik | I have 2 things I am looking to get in: | 14:14 |
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| nirik | munin - blocking on 2 perl modules... need to bug spot about them. | 14:14 |
| nirik | Xfce - I have done some test builds here, but need to do a bit more testing before I add them all in. | 14:14 |
| smooge | ok thanks mmcgrath . The good news is that they are still building.. The bad news is that it is a not-quite-dead box.. | 14:15 |
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| smooge | Ok thanks nirik . Our wishlist has quite a few items on it. I need to pick up some more packages but not sure about how exactly we do 'forks' when Fedora maintainer is non-responsive | 14:16 |
| knurd | smooge, we just do them in bugzilla with the Fedora maintainer CCed | 14:16 |
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| knurd | then he can yell if he wants to take care of the package in EPEL | 14:16 |
| smooge | Well I have some bug reports in place for like john the ripper, but have not see a 'fork' for it. Maybe I did the bug report wrong | 14:17 |
| nirik | yeah, give them a week to answer. | 14:17 |
| smooge | I will work with nirik on this later | 14:17 |
| * nirik nods | 14:17 | |
| * knurd has to leave soon | 14:18 | |
| smooge | next topic will be build reports | 14:18 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | make broken dep reports work and send them to the list | mmcgrath | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc | 14:18 | |
| knurd | just a note, I'll prepare the next EPEL4 testing->stable move tomorrow | 14:18 |
| smooge | I think this is a closed issue now. | 14:18 |
| smooge | Thanks knurd | 14:18 |
| knurd | and will likely relaize it this weekend | 14:18 |
| smooge | Thanks.. that was my next one.. but since you need to leave | 14:18 |
| * knurd should watch the keyboard more closely -- to many typos today | 14:19 | |
| nirik | knurd: sounds good. I will avoid pushing el4 after today until thats done. | 14:19 |
| knurd | nirik, thx | 14:19 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | EL-4/EL-5 pushes | knurd | 14:19 | |
| knurd | smooge, I know, you'd prefer a exact time for the movements | 14:19 |
| smooge | knurd, is it in your plans of 'easing' out that this needs to be turned over to someone else? Or are you willing/wanting to do this for the forseeable future? | 14:19 |
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| knurd | but that's not that easy always | 14:20 |
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| knurd | smooge, it's not that hard; I can take care of it in the future as well | 14:20 |
| * nirik is happy to take over as long as there are good instructions. | 14:20 | |
| smooge | knurd, actually my goal is to have a 'set' time. Goals are something we measure by and then move when we see we can or can not meet them | 14:20 |
| knurd | nirik, I updated the instructions in the wiki | 14:20 |
| nirik | yeah, just haven't had a chance to look. | 14:20 |
| knurd | smooge, well, I know, but life sometimes comes in between | 14:21 |
| smooge | so if it turns out that we have to do it on the first and second Saturday of every month.. thats cool with me. I just want to get some 'results' to measure against | 14:21 |
| smooge | And the results are that this is a volunteer project ;) | 14:21 |
| knurd | I also like to have a few work and weekend days betweeen annoucements and the actualy moving | 14:21 |
| knurd | that should give people a chance to respond to my "the next move will happen soon" mail | 14:21 |
| nirik | yeah... | 14:22 |
| smooge | knurd, would it be better if we had a 3rd channel? Or made testing just the place for stuff going into push? As in the devel -> integration -> production -> retirement model? | 14:22 |
| nirik | well, there are always going to be some things maintainers aren't ready to push to stable yet. | 14:22 |
| knurd | np, a 3rd channel just complicates things more without a benefit IMHO | 14:22 |
| * nirik nods. | 14:23 | |
| knurd | I don't think a devel branch makes sense for EPEL | 14:23 |
| smooge | ok cool. I want to make sure that we are not missing something | 14:23 |
| knurd | it only makes sense when a new RHEL release is approaching | 14:23 |
| knurd | maybe once EPEL is really big a 3rd channel might make sense | 14:23 |
| knurd | but that's not the case yet | 14:23 |
| smooge | ok cool. I will bring this up every couple of meetings just to make sure we havent passed the epiphany moment too far.. "You know we really could do with a 3rd channel last month" | 14:24 |
| knurd | bodhi might change the whole process sooner or later again in any case | 14:24 |
| smooge | But I will consider it a "Not yet" | 14:24 |
| knurd | smooge, k | 14:24 |
| nirik | yeah, bodhi will be nice for epel. | 14:24 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | RHEL-5.2beta | 14:25 | |
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| smooge | ok this came out yesterday.. | 14:25 |
| knurd | nirik, +1, as the maintainer then can decide on their own what to do | 14:25 |
| * quaid missed if there is a schedule for bodhi-izing EPEL | 14:25 | |
| * jmbuser agrees it should 35 minutes from now | 14:25 | |
| knurd | quaid, the schedule afaics is "once we switched to koji" ;-) | 14:25 |
| nirik | quaid: it's waiting on koji support, which is waiting on code changes in koji that no one has time for. ;( | 14:25 |
| knurd | as bodhi depends a lot on koji | 14:25 |
| smooge | quaid, it is problematic due to EL binaries with koji | 14:25 |
| jmbuser | theoretically speaking :-) | 14:25 |
| smooge | ====> slow typer | 14:26 |
| quaid | understood | 14:26 |
| * knurd leaves the keyboard for two or three minutes | 14:26 | |
| * quaid didn't mean to change topics, will wait for other biz | 14:26 | |
| smooge | Ok 5.2beta was announced yesterday. It has a lot of newer packages and will affect EPEL in some parts | 14:26 |
| nirik | jmbuser: 35min? | 14:26 |
| * jmbuser pardons himself - sorry | 14:26 | |
| jmbuser | wrong channel :-( | 14:26 |
| quaid | smooge: did some packages in EPEL get snarfed into 5.2? | 14:26 |
| nirik | smooge: cool. We will need to identify the packages from epel that got pulled in. | 14:27 |
| smooge | First part that affects EPEL, 5.1 will still be around. 2 packages have been snarfed like rsyslog | 14:27 |
| quaid | evil | 14:27 |
| smooge | which I think was in the epel waiting | 14:27 |
| quaid | we need someone on the RHEL side communicating with us on that before it happens | 14:27 |
| nirik | it happened in 5.1 as well, no biggie. | 14:27 |
| quaid | still ... | 14:27 |
| smooge | quaid, I thought that was you :) | 14:27 |
| quaid | <== Brand Communications now, far from Engineering these days | 14:28 |
| nirik | we just need to identify them, and make sure the 5.2 version is newer, and make sure the epel maintainers dead.package them in epel. | 14:28 |
| quaid | smooge: yeah, I need to find that person | 14:28 |
| smooge | quaid, hehehe Well I will remember to type out Red Hat Enterprise Linux istead of RHEL ;) | 14:28 |
| quaid | stickster: we need to talk about getting someone in the RHEL prod mgmt chain to own the EPEL relationship | 14:28 |
| * quaid rolls his eyes | 14:29 | |
| smooge | nirik, the issue comes up with the 5.1 channel issues. Are we going to deal with them? Or just stick with the 'latest' channel | 14:29 |
| nirik | we just have stuck with the latest. | 14:29 |
| nirik | I think doing multiple channels is too much for us... | 14:29 |
| smooge | quaid, sorry.. I spent a summer getting whacked for every RedHat versus Red Hat typing I did :) | 14:30 |
| quaid | well, that one is for certain! | 14:30 |
| smooge | nirik, ok.. I will need to clarify that in our documentation.. | 14:30 |
| * knurd leaves now | 14:30 | |
| smooge | by knurd | 14:30 |
| knurd | have a nice day/evening/night/whatever everyone | 14:31 |
| -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk | 14:31 | |
| nirik | night knurd_afk | 14:31 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | KojiAndBodhiForEpel | mmcgrath, _blah_ | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/KojiAndBodhiForEpel | 14:31 | |
| smooge | status on this is that no one has had the time to work on this.. I am hoping to try and scope out what needs to be done on it myself.. but have been running into 'work reorgs' and such | 14:32 |
| nirik | yeah. | 14:32 |
| smooge | the ideas are 1) CentOS and its delays.. so that the build system is 'open', 2) patching koji to use a 'hidden' partition with RHEL(*) binaries in it | 14:32 |
| nirik | 1) I have been told by a number of people is not an option. | 14:33 |
| stickster | quaid: Can you write me some email about what, specifically, you need from that relationship? That might make it easier for me to find someone who wants to own it... | 14:33 |
| nirik | 2) there are ideas, but no one working on it... perhaps once the fedora cycle gets less frantic people will have more time. | 14:33 |
| * stickster can see from above that schedule updates are one need. | 14:33 | |
| quaid | stickster: ok | 14:34 |
| smooge | nirik, I keep hearing that on #1.. but no specifics beyond the "hidden voices behind the cloaks at black sabbat meetings" | 14:34 |
| nirik | smooge: yes, it would be nice to get some sort of more concrete reason why this is a non starter... | 14:35 |
| smooge | Anyway.. I think that we will need to look at #3, we go with #1 and aim for #2 in the case that our build box sleeps with the fishes finally | 14:35 |
| nirik | or try and get someone/anyone to work on the #2 code issues... _blah_ was trying to... | 14:36 |
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| smooge | yes.. in either case, I think we have said pretty much what we said last time :).. | 14:37 |
| nirik | yeah. ;( Still an issue, still no solution in sight. ;( | 14:38 |
| smooge | stickster, can you get us a documented reason for why we need to stay with one set of binaries? | 14:38 |
| stickster | smooge: ? | 14:38 |
| nirik | stickster: you want the background on this issue? :) | 14:39 |
| quaid | smooge: I'm Cc;ing you on that email to stickster so you can give more details on some stuff like that | 14:39 |
| stickster | nirik: Correct. | 14:39 |
| smooge | thanks. | 14:39 |
| quaid | yeah, I reckon we're going to need to give stickster some bg love | 14:39 |
| nirik | stickster: epel uses RHEL binaries to build against. Currently it does not use koji because koji requires all binaries to be in it and tagged. If we did that to RHEL, anyone could download RHEL binaries from koji. | 14:40 |
| * smooge puts on his Barry White impersonation for stickster | 14:40 | |
| nirik | so, we need some way for koji to let us build against rhel, but not expose the binaries to the universe. | 14:40 |
| smooge | or we need to use binaries that we can expose to the universe | 14:40 |
| nirik | https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/koji/ticket/49 | 14:40 |
| nirik | we could switch to CentOS binaries... but then we loose ppc (they don't support it) and we also get a delay after releases before they are ready. | 14:41 |
| * quaid *cough* Free the RHEL bits!! *cough* | 14:41 | |
| nirik | and also it's probibly pretty bad PR. | 14:41 |
| quaid | also EPEL are not as supportable against RHEL binaries | 14:41 |
| quaid | which matters for our relationship with RHT GSS | 14:41 |
| quaid | (support services, for the TLA impaired) | 14:42 |
| nirik | right. Some enterprise people would balk at packages not built against official rhel binaries. | 14:42 |
| stickster | Is EPEL considered "supportable" at this point? To what extent? | 14:42 |
| quaid | stickster: not supportable by RHT | 14:42 |
| quaid | but | 14:42 |
| quaid | we do get *referenced* by RHT stuff | 14:42 |
| f13 | like RHCE training | 14:42 |
| quaid | "Get hg from EPEL then ..." | 14:42 |
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| quaid | I clearly believe it is important for RHT itself to have EPEL built against RHEL binaries | 14:43 |
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| jwb | we should be more explicit than EPEL. We should be calling it Extras Packages for Enterprise Linux 4, Extras Packages for Enterprise Linux 5, etc | 14:43 |
| * jwb ducks | 14:43 | |
| smooge | jwb, that would be Extra Packages for Red Hat Enterprise Linux EPRHEL which sounds like a drug | 14:44 |
| stickster | quaid: smooge: What is option #3? | 14:44 |
| stickster | Sorry, nirik should have been second there. | 14:45 |
| nirik | I don't see one. | 14:45 |
| nirik | I guess keep going as we are. | 14:45 |
| stickster | <smooge> Anyway.. I think that we will need to look at #3, we go with #1 and aim for #2 in the case that our build box sleeps with the fishes finally | 14:45 |
| quaid | smooge: techically, Enterprise Linux is the (tm) | 14:45 |
| * quaid saw that #3 and was confused too | 14:46 | |
| smooge | stickster, #3 is that we try to make ourselves flexible. If the server dies.. we will need to use solution #1 until we have patches that make koji secrative | 14:46 |
| smooge | or we just stop producing EPEL until those patches become available. | 14:47 |
| smooge | that is what I meant by #3 | 14:47 |
| smooge | is there anything else on this? | 14:48 |
| smooge | ... | 14:48 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | more mirrors | smooge | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc | 14:48 | |
| smooge | Ok I sent this off to mirror list this week... and I think we have more mirrors signed up. | 14:48 |
| smooge | yeah | 14:49 |
| nirik | cool | 14:49 |
| smooge | sorry mischan on that yeah.. | 14:50 |
| smooge | forgot to find out how we can report that number. will ask mdomsch on it | 14:50 |
| smooge | My final item on my list of things todo was: Marketing | 14:51 |
| quaid | yeah, that | 14:51 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EPEL SIG Meeting | marketing: Logo, Posters, etc?| smooge | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Tasks/Misc | 14:51 | |
| smooge | I put in a request for design logos on the arts page. | 14:51 |
| smooge | Havent had anyone pick it up yet. | 14:51 |
| quaid | stahnma and I have complementary talks _proposed_ for the Red Hat Summit; hopefully both get in | 14:51 |
| smooge | Cool | 14:52 |
| quaid | and I want folks from RHT marketing to get involved because it seems kind of lame for only Fedora to be promoting this :) | 14:52 |
| smooge | If not.. could we propose them to Red Hat Magazine? | 14:52 |
| * quaid knows that some ISV-oriented folks are aware but we haven't really pitched it to them as something to carry around for their partners | 14:52 | |
| quaid | smooge: good call! we can certainly write a series of articles on EPEL | 14:53 |
| quaid | technical, business focuses, etc. | 14:53 |
| smooge | quaid, we need this to be a two way conversation with ISV's.. we need to know what they want and what they will help sponsor | 14:53 |
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| quaid | smooge: right | 14:53 |
| smooge | does that make sense? | 14:53 |
| smooge | sorry slow typing.. wrist wrap on | 14:54 |
| quaid | yes it does | 14:54 |
| quaid | one vehicle for this is the Get Involved Guide | 14:54 |
| smooge | we currently have a bunch of packages that we fedorans want.. but what do the ISV's want, and how can we better manage them as they have 'special' needs (the Zenos package is a good example) | 14:54 |
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| smooge | It is open source, but since it carries its own versions of certain packages it has a stronger need to sit in /opt so its not a 'core' item. | 14:55 |
| quaid | stickster: will you continue to tag-team with me on that? This is a funny marketing/technical cross-over, which is why I grabbed Mr. North America (gregdek) into the EPEL conversation | 14:56 |
| quaid | that == internal selling and support about EPEL, like what we are doing with TOmen | 14:56 |
| stickster | quaid: I'm writing an email to the internal program list and cc'ing you on it | 14:56 |
| smooge | I would like if we can pull in Mr Europe and Ms South America too | 14:56 |
| stickster | I'll include gdk too | 14:56 |
| stickster | We have a Ms South America? | 14:56 |
| quaid | smooge: one at a time, buddy! | 14:56 |
| quaid | stickster: doesn't everyone? | 14:56 |
| smooge | I can dream stickster | 14:56 |
| stickster | Apparently so can quaid | 14:57 |
| quaid | stickster: in fact, let's see if Tomen wants to partner with us more here; he has a desire to be involved in Fedora and it would be a great help if he helped us negotiate the partner marketing stuffs | 14:57 |
| smooge | Anyway.. I was trying not to be sexist in names.. and failed. sorry | 14:57 |
| quaid | ok, I need to go do a quick two-minute honey-do | 14:58 |
| quaid | brb for FDSCo | 14:58 |
| smooge | Ok lets go over it | 14:58 |
| stickster | quaid: What does 'let's' mean -- are you emailing him, then? | 14:58 |
| smooge | We need to work with Red Hat internals on a couple of issues: ISV's, marketing, and build system. We need to put a date on when we are looking for this so that we don't fall off the radar | 14:58 |
| * stickster needs to track who he's supposed to tag and with what. | 14:59 | |
| smooge | ok.. I think we have another meeting in here... in 1 | 14:59 |
| * smooge will close the meeting in 30 seconds | 14:59 | |
| smooge | and publish logs and todos unless I am wrong | 14:59 |
| smooge | ... | 14:59 |
| -!- smooge changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule | 15:00 | |
| smooge | Ok sorry if we ran over.. | 15:00 |
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| smooge | I have a work meeting I need to go to for the next hour.. I will be back at 20:30 UTC | 15:01 |
| nirik | thanks smooge | 15:01 |
| stickster | Not sure if there's another meeting in here now anyway. Docs trying to figure out the split schedule. | 15:01 |
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| stickster | nirik: What is EPEL doing now? Some sort of mock building? | 15:03 |
| nirik | stickster: epel is using the old extras buildys... plague | 15:03 |
| stickster | Ah | 15:03 |
| nirik | so it's a different buildsys, and it can't use bodhi for updates... | 15:04 |
| stickster | nirik: So the pain of having to maintain the old buildsys in all its pain, as opposed to having a new buildsys in all *its* pain. | 15:04 |
| stickster | Argh, one too many uses of "pain" | 15:04 |
| quaid | /me is back | 15:04 |
| * stickster hates one line IRC entry. | 15:04 | |
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| quaid | ok, we're taking over here ... | 15:05 |
| nirik | yeah... the old buildsys is pain due to not working with bodhi, and also due to fedora no longer using it for anything, so there is not any development/shared infrastructure, etc. | 15:05 |
| stickster | nirik: Have you guys considered the current sysadmin problems that koji entails? | 15:05 |
| stickster | That goes for quaid too. | 15:05 |
| quaid | stickster: join #epel for ongoing chat, btw | 15:05 |
| * nirik goes over to epel. | 15:06 | |
| stickster | OK, I'll repost ther.e | 15:06 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo meeting | 15:06 | |
| jmbuser | Present I am | 15:06 |
| quaid | </meeting> | 15:06 |
| quaid | jmbuser is present, so am I | 15:06 |
| * quaid gets the agenda rolling ... | 15:06 | |
| quaid | stickster was here ... | 15:07 |
| quaid | so three of us at least | 15:07 |
| quaid | EvilBob: it's your topic up first, btw | 15:07 |
| -!- ezq [n=ezq@host201.190-224-66.telecom.net.ar] has joined #fedora-meeting | 15:07 | |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Mailing list spam and moderation | 15:08 | |
| * stickster here | 15:09 | |
| quaid | hmm, without Bob I don't think we get the full impatc | 15:10 |
| quaid | but aiui | 15:10 |
| quaid | he was concerned with list moderators stepping on each other | 15:10 |
| quaid | outside of designating hours of coverage (horrors!) | 15:11 |
| quaid | I think we just have to be careful | 15:11 |
| quaid | and make sure we know what we are rejecting | 15:11 |
| quaid | for this I use the Mailman WebUI to be sure | 15:11 |
| jmbuser | quaid: Is there any way to prevent the spam mail from cloggin up my webmail? | 15:13 |
| jmbuser | s / cloggin / clogging / | 15:13 |
| quaid | filters? | 15:14 |
| quaid | also ... | 15:14 |
| quaid | Mike was going to adjust our filters | 15:14 |
| quaid | but afaict he hasn't | 15:14 |
| quaid | I don't know quite what to do there and haven't found anyone who can help | 15:14 |
| * quaid tries not to say M I K E ' s name so as to not distract him from FAS2 fun | 15:15 | |
| jmbuser | The signal-to-noise ratio drops drastically with spam and causes me to miss real information | 15:16 |
| quaid | hmm | 15:17 |
| quaid | I'm not sure if the spam filters drop the message before it gets to the queue | 15:17 |
| quaid | I'll drop mike an email about the filters | 15:17 |
| jmbuser | thanks | 15:18 |
| quaid | ok, that's about what we can do | 15:19 |
| quaid | jmbuser: are you using the web interface for moderating? or still using the reply-to in the email stuff? | 15:19 |
| stickster | Hm, I haven't seen any spam on f-docs-l. | 15:19 |
| stickster | Maybe it's my Gmail at work? | 15:20 |
| jmbuser | quaid: web interface | 15:20 |
| quaid | stickster: it doesn't land on list, it hits the moderation queue | 15:20 |
| stickster | Oh that. | 15:20 |
| -!- mkranz [n=mkranz@h-217.111.50.179.host.de.colt.net] has joined #fedora-meeting | 15:20 | |
| quaid | so it's moderator email that you see | 15:20 |
| quaid | ok, anything else here? | 15:20 |
| stickster | *AH*. I've been getting a BOATLOAD of that on f-a-b and f-board-l that I do have to moderate, so fair enough. | 15:20 |
| quaid | stickster: mike figured out a formula for using RHT set spam assassin headers | 15:21 |
| stickster | quaid: I've been considering simply rejecting email from non-subscribers, at least on f-board-l. | 15:21 |
| quaid | I just sent him email, once I get the details, i'll publish and advertise to list admins | 15:21 |
| quaid | stickster: then you lose the people who we ask to reply to the board | 15:21 |
| stickster | s/non-subscribers/non-subscribers who aren't preapproved/ | 15:21 |
| quaid | aiui, the SA headers are present and can be used by Mailman | 15:22 |
| stickster | Aha | 15:22 |
| stickster | OK, not to drive this into the ground, sorry all. | 15:22 |
| quaid | I just want to avoid re-doing Mike's figuring here, so I'll see what he says, then try it on f-docs-l ...etc. | 15:22 |
| quaid | ok, moving on ... | 15:22 |
| stickster | If it works, let me know and I'll follow suit | 15:22 |
| * quaid looks back up 9 lines in his buffer | 15:23 | |
| quaid | yep | 15:23 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Access to wiki/Docs content and what content belongs there | 15:23 | |
| quaid | did we talk about this before? | 15:23 |
| quaid | I thought we agreed that, following the MW move | 15:24 |
| quaid | , we would deprecate Docs and remove ACLs | 15:24 |
| quaid | s/Docs/Docs and Docs/Drafts/ | 15:24 |
| jmbuser | quaid: sorry, can you clarify that a bit? | 15:25 |
| quaid | ok | 15:25 |
| quaid | based on the WikiGardening scheme | 15:25 |
| quaid | we have two major areas: | 15:26 |
| quaid | project-specific and content-specific | 15:26 |
| quaid | and within that a set of common trees to layout | 15:26 |
| quaid | e.g.: | 15:26 |
| quaid | Virt/QuickStart/9/Draft | 15:26 |
| quaid | Virt/QuickStart/9/ <== real thing | 15:26 |
| quaid | etc. | 15:26 |
| * quaid always gets this order in correct | 15:26 | |
| quaid | in other words, we are flattening the structure up a few levels and removing a Docs/ specific area | 15:27 |
| quaid | because the idea is, wiki = community documentation all by ytself | 15:27 |
| jmbuser | makes perfect sense | 15:28 |
| quaid | ok, I thought we discussed this but I don't really see anything updated anywhere on that ... | 15:29 |
| jmbuser | Are there any more agenda items we should discuss? | 15:34 |
| stickster | quaid: That's correct, we did agree to remove "Docs/" from the namespace. | 15:34 |
| quaid | sorry, yes ... | 15:34 |
| * stickster dragged off again, sorry. | 15:34 | |
| quaid | I was trying to figure some stuff out to no avail | 15:34 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- content updates | 15:34 | |
| stickster | Disagreement last week came with the question of hierarchies and how useful they are on the wiki. | 15:34 |
| stickster | I can take them or leave them, no biggie. | 15:35 |
| quaid | well, that's true | 15:35 |
| quaid | I guess ... | 15:35 |
| -!- zydoon [n=fzied@41.225.128.45] has joined #fedora-meeting | 15:35 | |
| quaid | I think we should define a standard that people can choose to follow | 15:35 |
| stickster | I think search levels the playing field -- when we have a wiki where that's worth something :-) | 15:35 |
| stickster | Then hierarchies make sense. | 15:35 |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- wiki structure | 15:35 | |
| stickster | heh | 15:35 |
| quaid | stickster: sorry, when do hier. make sense? | 15:36 |
| stickster | Sorry, I skipped Step 2 in my brain. | 15:36 |
| stickster | 2. As long as there are Docs people to herd the cats (pages). | 15:36 |
| quaid | a | 15:36 |
| quaid | h | 15:36 |
| zydoon | ZiedFakhfakh | 15:36 |
| quaid | that is sort of a given | 15:36 |
| quaid | we must have more wiki watchers | 15:37 |
| stickster | Well, I use "make sense" loosely | 15:37 |
| stickster | I mean "are no less tolerable than any other method" :-) | 15:37 |
| stickster | Otherwise we're building process for no purpose. | 15:37 |
| quaid | and more watchers == more guidelines so we aren't reteaching the same stuff | 15:37 |
| quaid | well | 15:37 |
| stickster | *nod | 15:37 |
| quaid | codification of what is already there v. creating from scratch | 15:37 |
| quaid | man! | 15:37 |
| quaid | question: | 15:38 |
| stickster | heh | 15:38 |
| quaid | should Docs own this wiki project management function? | 15:38 |
| quaid | or do we need a Wiki SIG? | 15:38 |
| * jwb sighs | 15:38 | |
| * quaid eyes jwb | 15:38 | |
| quaid | speak lad! | 15:38 |
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| jwb | i don't want to place more burden on Docs, but a Wiki SIG sounds like a failure for using a Wiki at all | 15:39 |
| jwb | Wiki == anyone and everyone can change stuff | 15:40 |
| quaid | right | 15:40 |
| quaid | and as we make it easier to get a wiki account | 15:40 |
| quaid | that means more of that | 15:40 |
| quaid | I guess I don't mind it as a Docs function, myself; it seems to make sense, in that a wiki == community documentation so is a Docs function, right? | 15:41 |
| jwb | that's what i was thinking, but i might be misunderstanding your overall resources and scope | 15:41 |
| quaid | to answer my own question, i think we need to own it and work it hard and recruit for help whilst enabling the poor buggers | 15:41 |
| jwb | anyway, don't put too much weight to my comments | 15:42 |
| quaid | part of that is encouraging active page "ownership" by content/subject matter experts | 15:42 |
| quaid | and having an army of fixers and watchers who keep things tidy :) | 15:42 |
| quaid | WikiAntz | 15:42 |
| jmbuser | I think a wiki can be accessible to all and still have areas that need more structure and control with limited access | 15:43 |
| jmbuser | as well as WikiAntz | 15:43 |
| * quaid just wants a CMS for the structure and control parts, but ph34rs that horse is a'dyin' | 15:44 | |
| quaid | *sigh* | 15:44 |
| quaid | this is a list discussion we need to get active on, imo | 15:44 |
| * jwb likes the term WikiAntz | 15:44 | |
| quaid | so I'm going to move it there, maybe after I clean up some unclarities in WikiGardening | 15:44 |
| quaid | people could watch pages by alphabet | 15:44 |
| quaid | just set A.* in your watch area to watch all the A-stuff | 15:45 |
| * quaid picks [XxYyZz.*] | 15:45 | |
| quaid | ok, then, if there are no objections to that motion ? | 15:45 |
| -!- Milanito [n=Matt@86.72.250.50] has joined #fedora-meeting | 15:46 | |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- content updates | 15:46 | |
| quaid | I'll do the ones I know for the record, then EOF | 15:46 |
| quaid | * relnotes -- working with mdious, stickster and I are imparting knowledge; I did BIG updates to the processes last night, check DocsProject/WorkFlow to get started; DP/Wiki2XML tells all for now; updates are coming in; push more people to provide more updates | 15:47 |
| quaid | blog, blog, blog | 15:47 |
| quaid | * DUG -- worked with Marc yesterday to get him started with CVS skel; he has the wiki2xml notes; we're planning next picking a chapter (Introduction.xml) and doing it one step at a time; this lets us check the modern how-it's-done-in-this-Moin-version so we can update e.g. release-notes/devel/xmlbeats | 15:48 |
| quaid | * SMG -- still need feedback to jsmith on the conversion; with this feedback he may be able to give more help to the wiki2xml notes | 15:48 |
| quaid | EOF | 15:49 |
| quaid | if there is no one to speak for the others ... | 15:49 |
| quaid | I think the AG is in a similar boat as the DUG; we're just trying to get one done and converted | 15:49 |
| stickster | There are a lot of things hinging on people getting up to speed on XML conversion issues | 15:49 |
| quaid | DUG addendum -- paul and I have done some edits on there for finalization; wish there were more people who could do that or learn to do that final edit | 15:50 |
| stickster | I just found out that I may be unavailable for a lot of Sunday, because my realtor wants an open house all day. | 15:50 |
| stickster | quaid: +1 that, no one else has signed up even for wordsmithing. | 15:50 |
| stickster | jmbuser: Pls. ensure that ^^ makes it into the minutes. | 15:50 |
| quaid | stickster: got a moment to drop a beg for wordsmithing to the list? | 15:51 |
| quaid | I mean, there are competent editors out there | 15:51 |
| stickster | You got it man | 15:51 |
| quaid | and the StyleGuide is clear | 15:51 |
| * stickster composes | 15:51 | |
| quaid | in fact, I listed out all the specific areas to check in the fixes I did last night | 15:51 |
| * quaid pulls up a link | 15:52 | |
| -!- fcrippa [n=fcrippa@83.225.5.137] has joined #fedora-meeting | 15:52 | |
| quaid | ok, meanwhile ... | 15:54 |
| -!- glezos_afk [n=glezos@ppp201-131.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #fedora-meeting | 15:54 | |
| -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Any other bidness? | 15:54 | |
| glezos_afk | LUG meeting took longer than usual :/ | 15:54 |
| jmbuser | glezos_afk: Greetings | 15:55 |
| glezos_afk | sorry guys | 15:55 |
| quaid | np | 15:55 |
| quaid | stickster: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#WikitoDocBookXML | 15:55 |
| * stickster does a beg | 15:56 | |
| stickster | OK, well I missed that part, but the beg was for low-hanging fruit anyway. | 15:56 |
| -!- glezos_afk is now known as glezos | 15:57 | |
| quaid | right o | 15:57 |
| quaid | if there is no more to discuss ... | 15:58 |
| quaid | ? | 15:58 |
| * quaid closing in 10 seconds | 15:58 | |
| quaid | 5 ... | 15:58 |
| quaid | </meeting> | 15:58 |
| * quaid goes for the /topic, one sec | 15:59 | |
| jmbuser | thanks, quaid | 15:59 |
| quaid | always a pleasure | 15:59 |
| * quaid goes off to sign a tenancy-in-common contract | 15:59 | |
| * jmbuser wished it was the logical equivalent of Friday night | 15:59 | |
| jmbuser | s / it was / it wasn't / | 16:00 |
| jmbuser | for him | 16:00 |
| -!- jsmith-teaching [n=jsmith@216.207.245.1] has joined #fedora-meeting | 16:00 | |
| * jsmith-teaching lurks | 16:00 | |
| mkranz | Hi folks! | 16:00 |
| spevack | hi! | 16:01 |
| mkranz | Anybody here for the EMEA Ambassador meeting? :) | 16:01 |
| mkranz | Hi Max! | 16:01 |
| * spevack waves | 16:01 | |
| jmbuser | jsmith-teaching: just finished the meeting - moving to fedora-docs | 16:01 |
| fcrippa | mkranz: yep ;-) | 16:01 |
| jsmith-teaching | Perfect timing | 16:01 |
| quaid | feel free to just grab the /topic | 16:01 |
| * jsmith-teaching unlurks | 16:01 | |
| quaid | since I can't get to the original on the wiki page atm | 16:01 |
| -!- mkranz changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: EMEA Ambassador Mtg | 16:01 | |
| -!- jsmith-teaching [n=jsmith@216.207.245.1] has left #fedora-meeting ["Leaving"] | 16:01 | |
| -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] | 16:01 | |
| zydoon | hi | 16:02 |
| mkranz | Okay, does not sound like hundreds of Ambassadors ... :) | 16:02 |
| * spevack tries to pull up the agenda on the wiki | 16:02 | |
| tc1415 | hi all | 16:02 |
| zydoon | ZiedFakhfakh | 16:02 |
| mkranz | Hi, welcome all to our monthly EMEA Ambassador call. | 16:02 |
| tc1415 | BenLewis | 16:03 |
| Milanito | hi all | 16:03 |
| jmbuser | JohnBabich | 16:03 |
| spevack | Max Spevack | 16:03 |
| mkranz | Matthias Kranz | 16:03 |
| fcrippa | FrancescoCrippa | 16:03 |
| mkranz | tc1415? | 16:04 |
| mkranz | Milanito? | 16:04 |
| tc1415 | BenLewis | 16:04 |
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| mkranz | tc1415: Ah, sorry, Ben! | 16:04 |
| tc1415 | mkranz, thats ok | 16:04 |
| Milanito | actually im not yet an ambassador i'm here to learn ^^ but i did ask to be one | 16:04 |
| Milanito | MatthieuRondeau on the wiki | 16:05 |
| mkranz | Milanito: Merci beaucoup! | 16:05 |
| spevack | Milanito: welcome | 16:05 |
| Milanito | ty | 16:05 |
| Milanito | thanks* | 16:05 |
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| -!- AndreasR [n=zeus@urz-ar224.urz.unibas.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting | 16:05 | |
| -!- lutter [n=dlutter@m4e0f36d0.tmodns.net] has quit ["Leaving."] | 16:05 | |
| mkranz | Okay, then let's start with the first topic on the agenda. | 16:05 |
| fcrippa | Milanito: welcome! | 16:05 |
| mkranz | - News from Famsco | 16:06 |
| mkranz | Anybody? | 16:06 |
| spevack | If no one else from famsco is here, i can say a few words | 16:06 |
| * mkranz hides since he has no clue. | 16:06 | |
| AndreasR | I am here | 16:06 |
| spevack | AndreasR: why don't you go ahead, and then I | 16:06 |
| AndreasR | but at the moment I ve nothing to say | 16:06 |
| spevack | will add on | 16:06 |
| spevack | ok, I'll go then :) | 16:06 |
| AndreasR | Max | 16:06 |
| AndreasR | thx | 16:06 |
| spevack | So I am not an "official" member of FAMSCo, but one of the things that I am spending more of my time on now | 16:07 |
| spevack | is being a "mentor" and "helper" to FAMSCo | 16:07 |
| spevack | there are a few things FAMSCo is working on | 16:07 |
| spevack | that will be of interest to Fedora EMEA | 16:07 |
| spevack | the first is making sure that every event can have financial support | 16:07 |
| spevack | Famsco will be sending an email to fedora-ambassadors-list soon | 16:07 |
| spevack | but basically | 16:07 |
| spevack | if you look at the Events page on the Fedora wiki | 16:07 |
| glezos | Dimitris Glezos | 16:07 |
| glezos | :) | 16:08 |
| * jmbuser got distracted - continue Max | 16:08 | |
| spevack | you will see that we break the year down into 4 quarters | 16:08 |
| spevack | and we are going to plan the funding for events based on those quarters | 16:08 |
| spevack | because that is how Red Hat handles its budgets | 16:08 |
| spevack | For EMEA | 16:08 |
| spevack | the only event left on the schedule until the end of may is linuxtag | 16:08 |
| spevack | and that has a "separate" budget | 16:08 |
| spevack | but for the June - August quarter, we will try to have all worldwide ambassadors update the event page by May 1 with the events that will be in June-August, and then we will be able to give funding. | 16:09 |
| spevack | the email that will come out soon will have more detailed explanations | 16:09 |
| spevack | any questions right now? | 16:09 |
| tc1415 | ? | 16:09 |
| spevack | go ahead | 16:09 |
| tc1415 | I assume that that May 1st date is the deadline for having funding? | 16:09 |
| tc1415 | eof | 16:09 |
| spevack | Well, we want to make a deadline of "getting the list of all events" 1 month before the beginning of the quarter. | 16:10 |
| spevack | So March - May is one quarter | 16:10 |
| spevack | but the only event left is LinuxTag | 16:10 |
| spevack | June - August is the 2nd quarter, and we want to try to know by May 1 all the events we need to fund | 16:10 |
| spevack | so that there is 1 month to plan | 16:10 |
| tc1415 | right, ok, just wondering | 16:10 |
| spevack | similarly, the 3rd quarter will be Sep - Nov, and we will try to have an August 1 deadline | 16:11 |
| spevack | ok.. good question! | 16:11 |
| spevack | any other questions or comments? | 16:11 |
| Milanito | ? | 16:11 |
| spevack | go ahead | 16:11 |
| spevack | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents in case anyone doesn't know where the events page is. | 16:11 |
| Milanito | might seem silly but i was wondering how do you define event because in my school we might be organising a linux event | 16:11 |
| spevack | the definition is fairly loose. | 16:12 |
| spevack | in my opinion, an event is any time someone or a group of people | 16:12 |
| spevack | is going to speak about Fedora, or "represent" Fedora in an official kind of way | 16:12 |
| spevack | Some events are huge, like LinuxTag | 16:12 |
| spevack | some events are small, like someone going to speak at a school or university. | 16:13 |
| spevack | from the perspective of framsco | 16:13 |
| spevack | s/framsco/FAMSCO/ | 16:13 |
| spevack | what we want to know about is events that the Ambassador requires assistance either with planning, or with materials, or with content, etc. | 16:13 |
| -!- Renault [n=couretca@AToulon-151-1-147-206.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] | 16:13 | |
| spevack | does that answer your question? | 16:13 |
| Milanito | yeah pretty much the event will be more like a presentation of linux, with fedora ubuntu etc... | 16:14 |
| Milanito | so i guess it can be considered as an event | 16:14 |
| spevack | That is definitely something that we would be happy to assist with | 16:14 |
| Milanito | thats great then | 16:14 |
| spevack | feel free to add it to the page, and then as it gets closer, we will discuss/plan for it | 16:14 |
| spevack | If there are no other questions, we can move on to the next agenda item. | 16:14 |
| * spevack looks at mkranz :) | 16:14 | |
| * mkranz feels observed. | 16:15 | |
| mkranz | Okay. | 16:15 |
| * spevack looks at AndreasR instead | 16:15 | |
| AndreasR | not at this point | 16:15 |
| AndreasR | thx | 16:15 |
| AndreasR | later | 16:15 |
| mkranz | Max, anything else to add from Famsco? | 16:15 |
| spevack | no, that's all from me. | 16:15 |
| mkranz | Okay. | 16:15 |
| mkranz | Then next point of the agenda. | 16:16 |
| AndreasR | ! | 16:16 |
| mkranz | AndreasR: go ahead! | 16:16 |
| AndreasR | I think it is important that we get the agenda points... if it is okay I want to say something at the end | 16:16 |
| AndreasR | eof | 16:16 |
| mkranz | AndreasR: Yes, of course. | 16:16 |
| mkranz | No problem. | 16:16 |
| mkranz | I think we will be through very quickly. | 16:17 |
| mkranz | Next point is: | 16:17 |
| mkranz | - Report current status of Ambassadors Materials Tracker and Ambassadors Membership Verification | 16:17 |
| mkranz | Anybody? | 16:17 |
| * mkranz hides because he had no fingers on the agenda. | 16:17 | |
| -!- Renault [n=couretca@AToulon-151-1-147-206.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fedora-meeting | 16:17 | |
| spevack | The Tracker is empty. Lots of swag is being made. As requests come in, we can fill them. | 16:17 |
| zydoon | ? | 16:18 |
| -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: tc1415 | 16:18 | |
| mkranz | zydoon: go ahead. | 16:18 |
| glezos | ? | 16:18 |
| zydoon | as we will organising F launch day (s install party | 16:18 |
| zydoon | we gonna need some media | 16:18 |
| zydoon | in Tunisia | 16:18 |
| spevack | ! | 16:18 |
| zydoon | would you please tell me how long will take to have them shipped, | 16:18 |
| mkranz | spevack: go ahead! | 16:19 |
| zydoon | so I can prepare my self, if I will burn them here | 16:19 |
| zydoon | eof | 16:19 |
| spevack | I think that we need to make media somewhere in EMEA that can ship to other places in EMEA. And we make media in USA for places in USA. But it is a waste of money to ship CDs across the ocean, and pay for customs. | 16:19 |
| spevack | Fedora can pay the bill, but I need help from locals in Europe to find a good manufacturer and price. | 16:20 |
| zydoon | indeed | 16:20 |
| mkranz | ! | 16:20 |
| spevack | if someone wants to work with me offline, I can explain the requirements and price range. | 16:20 |
| spevack | EOF | 16:20 |
| mkranz | glezos: You first, then me! | 16:20 |
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| mkranz | glezos: Or I would like to add something to the current thread. | 16:21 |
| mkranz | spevack: I could help out probably. | 16:21 |
| glezos | mkranz: oh, I was just wondering a similar thing to zydoon. I'm presenting at a medium-ish event in Athens next Friday and I was wondering if there was any possibility to have some media with such late notice. | 16:21 |
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| mkranz | As you may know I am working for Red Hat in Munich, Germany. | 16:21 |
| mkranz | We are producing the DVDs for our local CollStuffStore. | 16:21 |
| spevack | glezos: nothing i can do to help, unfortunately. we're completely out of F8 media. maybe you could offer to take people's usb keys and turn them into LiveUSB's? | 16:22 |
| mkranz | And we are able to get them produced for very small money. | 16:22 |
| spevack | mkranz: maybe you and i can talk offline then about options for Fedora 9 | 16:22 |
| glezos | spevack: excellend idea, thanks. | 16:22 |
| spevack | and LinuxTag | 16:22 |
| mkranz | glezos: How many DVDs do you need? | 16:22 |
| mkranz | spevack: Yep, we will do. | 16:22 |
| glezos | mkranz: 100-150 I guess. | 16:22 |
| * spevack makes a note to follow up | 16:22 | |
| mkranz | glezos: Please send me an email to mkranz@redhat.com with your contact details. | 16:23 |
| mkranz | glezos: When do you need them? | 16:23 |
| -!- tibbs [n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] | 16:23 | |
| glezos | It's a FOSS community event, ie target audience not users but contributors, so I think a strong presence would be important. But I neglected letting you guys know earlier, too much happening recently. | 16:23 |
| glezos | mkranz: By Thu 20/3 | 16:23 |
| mkranz | glezos: Where are you located? | 16:24 |
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| glezos | mkranz: stuff could be shipped to Athens, Greece | 16:24 |
| mkranz | Ah, I see, in Athens, Greece. | 16:24 |
| zydoon | ! | 16:24 |
| glezos | maybe we could take this offline, and let the meeting continue. | 16:24 |
| mkranz | glezos: Pretty sure. | 16:24 |
| mkranz | zydoon: go ahead! | 16:24 |
| zydoon | we will holding f9 launch day 10 days after release | 16:25 |
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| zydoon | so if you think it's better I make the media locally, please tell me | 16:25 |
| zydoon | eof | 16:25 |
| mkranz | zydoon: That's a pretty tight schedule when it comes to procuding the DVDs here in Munich. | 16:25 |
| zydoon | ok | 16:25 |
| spevack | zydoon: if i were you | 16:25 |
| zydoon | I'll do it here | 16:25 |
| spevack | i would begin looking into a local producer. | 16:25 |
| zydoon | ok | 16:25 |
| zydoon | fine | 16:25 |
| mkranz | I don't think that we are going to make it in time. | 16:25 |
| spevack | because the F9 bits only are finalized 3 or 4 days before release | 16:25 |
| mkranz | That's the problem. | 16:26 |
| zydoon | understood | 16:26 |
| spevack | it is very hard to turn around media in that kind of timeframe with any shipping | 16:26 |
| zydoon | it's not a problem :) | 16:26 |
| spevack | zydoon: we can help pay! please stay in touch :) | 16:26 |
| zydoon | I'll handle it | 16:26 |
| mkranz | Okay. | 16:26 |
| zydoon | ok thanks | 16:26 |
| zydoon | eof | 16:26 |
| mkranz | Next point in the agenda: | 16:26 |
| mkranz | - Report current status of upcoming Fedora Events in EMEA. See Fedora Events page. | 16:26 |
| mkranz | Okay, anybody here who could speak about | 16:27 |
| mkranz | - Lolug Pillole at Lodi (formally "Fedora by Night") | 16:27 |
| mkranz | - FOSDEM 2008 | 16:27 |
| mkranz | - Chemnitzer LinuxTage 2008 | 16:27 |
| mkranz | - (OpenExpo 2008 Berne) | 16:27 |
| mkranz | ? | 16:27 |
| fcrippa | ! | 16:28 |
| mkranz | I mean, in addition to the great reports we have seen on our beloved mailing list. | 16:28 |
| mkranz | fcrippa: go ahead! | 16:28 |
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| fcrippa | I reported about "Fedora by Night" event during last Fedora EMEA Abassadors Meeting (one month ago?) | 16:28 |
| fcrippa | I don't know why it's still in agenda | 16:28 |
| fcrippa | by the way, you can find all information and photos here: | 16:28 |
| glezos | ! | 16:28 |
| mkranz | fcrippa: Do not know it, too. | 16:28 |
| fcrippa | http://www.flickr.com/photos/fcrippa/sets/72157603949413659/ | 16:28 |
| fcrippa | http://people.byte-code.com/fcrippa/2008/02/21/fedora-by-night-the-day-after/ | 16:28 |
| * spevack remembers hearing great things about Fedora By Night and FOSDEM. | 16:29 | |
| fcrippa | eof | 16:29 |
| mkranz | glezos: go ahead! | 16:29 |
| spevack | ! (after glezos) | 16:29 |
| glezos | I found FOSDEM (once again) a *great* conference for EMEA to get together. I propose to try and somewhat advocate it as something like an annual meetup for EMEA and the L10n project. | 16:29 |
| fcrippa | glezos: +1 | 16:30 |
| glezos | For example, we could try and cover some expenses for making sure the EMEA folks and the (soon to be created) Fedora L10n Steering Committee could be there. | 16:30 |
| glezos | (eof) | 16:30 |
| mkranz | spevack: go ahead! | 16:30 |
| spevack | glezos: on the subject of FOSDEM | 16:30 |
| spevack | glezos: the CommunityArchitecture team (which I am now part of) has listed LinuxTag and FOSDEM as the two *major* European events. Each gets its own separate funding. We have $15,000 USD set aside for FOSDEM 2009, so your vision will be reality. | 16:31 |
| spevack | on the topic of events in general | 16:31 |
| glezos | fantastic. | 16:31 |
| spevack | I think the reports on ambassadors-list and Fedora Planet have been very high quality lately, and I am happy. | 16:32 |
| spevack | EOF | 16:32 |
| mkranz | spevack: I think we all are happy about this! | 16:32 |
| jmbuser | +1 | 16:32 |
| AndreasR | :) | 16:32 |
| spevack | AndreasR always tells me I need to smile more :) | 16:32 |
| AndreasR | right | 16:32 |
| mkranz | Okay, last minor topic in this major bullet point is: | 16:32 |
| mkranz | - News about LinuxTag 2008 | 16:33 |
| mkranz | Anybody? | 16:33 |
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| spevack | well, Gerold is not here right now, but I have been paying attention and I believe that everything is on target. | 16:33 |
| AndreasR | +1 | 16:33 |
| spevack | We should be sure to get a big update next month, since it will be only 5 weeks before LinuxTag | 16:33 |
| spevack | EOF | 16:34 |
| mkranz | spevack: I will talk to Gerold about it. | 16:34 |
| valent | npr. za placanje standova za konferencije | 16:34 |
| AndreasR | ! | 16:34 |
| mkranz | By the way, for all people who are interested: | 16:34 |
| mkranz | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/LinuxTag/LinuxTag2008 | 16:34 |
| mkranz | AndreasR: go ahead! | 16:35 |
| spevack | mkranz: you will be at LT? | 16:35 |
| valent | sorry wrong irc window | 16:35 |
| AndreasR | you are right I talked to him yesterday... they are doing well | 16:35 |
| AndreasR | but I think it is better to wait... till next week | 16:35 |
| mkranz | spevack: I will try to make it, yes. | 16:35 |
| AndreasR | Gerold or someone else will give us an update | 16:35 |
| AndreasR | eof | 16:35 |
| spevack | Gerold is very busy at work right now, I believe. | 16:36 |
| AndreasR | yes | 16:36 |
| mkranz | spevack: But as you know, it is the most important quarter in the history of ... | 16:36 |
| mkranz | Okay. | 16:36 |
| mkranz | Next point. | 16:36 |
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| spevack | mkranz: LOL | 16:36 |
| mkranz | - Status of the NPO | 16:37 |
| mkranz | We have seen the reports about FOSDEM and the "side note" of the NPO :) | 16:37 |
| mkranz | Anybody here wants to add something to it? | 16:37 |
| spevack | I don't think any of the Board Members of the NPO are here right now..... | 16:37 |
| spevack | Gerold, Jeroen, and Robert | 16:38 |
| mkranz | I would propose that Gerold should give an update/introduction about this next month as well! | 16:38 |
| AndreasR | ! | 16:38 |
| mkranz | AndreasR: go ahead! | 16:38 |
| fcrippa | spevack: ...and Fabian ;-) | 16:38 |
| AndreasR | I will talk tomorrow with gerold... he will be informed | 16:39 |
| AndreasR | eof | 16:39 |
| mkranz | AndreasR: Great! Thanks a lot. | 16:39 |
| mkranz | Last point on our agenda: Open floor! | 16:40 |
| mkranz | Anybody wants to speak about anything? | 16:40 |
| spevack | i have one | 16:40 |
| mkranz | Let's gather some points. | 16:40 |
| mkranz | AndreasR: You wanted to add something? | 16:41 |
| AndreasR | jep | 16:41 |
| AndreasR | is it the time | 16:41 |
| * spevack will go after andreas | 16:41 | |
| AndreasR | As a famsco member I wanted to add a small (maybe mid size) comment - | 16:41 |
| AndreasR | As you know currently famsco got some tasks for what they (we) are ... EventBudget... helping with events... etc... you can read it on the wiki... | 16:41 |
| AndreasR | but everything will not work if we will not get information from you... | 16:41 |
| AndreasR | so as Francesco did it in the past I want to do it again - | 16:41 |
| AndreasR | We need you to do this job - Information is the key.. and you are the source - | 16:41 |
| AndreasR | so please if there is a problem or anything else we can be helpfull please don't be (don't know that term)... let us know - please send us mails - send us informations - reports... everything we can work with | 16:42 |
| AndreasR | Max something to add .... | 16:42 |
| rsc | mkranz: sorry, I'm very late. Status of NPO is, that we'll be on monday at the register court to get e.V. and we can really start hopefully soon. | 16:42 |
| AndreasR | eof | 16:42 |
| jmbuser | As a fellow member of FAmSco, a big +1 | 16:42 |
| mkranz | AndreasR: +1 | 16:42 |
| jmbuser | eof | 16:42 |
| mkranz | rsc: Thanks for the update. | 16:43 |
| spevack | +1 to Andreas also | 16:43 |
| mkranz | Okay, spevack go ahead! | 16:43 |
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| spevack | I just wanted to add quickly -- some of you already have seen on my blog (http://spevack.livejournal.com) but Red Hat will be sending me to Europe in May to take a leadership role in community building and fedora through the EMEA region. Very exciting for all of us, and gives me a chance to work much closer with folks like mkranz and all our Fedora Ambassadors | 16:44 |
| spevack | My job will be to lead Fedora/Red Hat community efforts throughout EMEA. | 16:44 |
| spevack | EOF | 16:44 |
| Milanito | ! | 16:44 |
| mkranz | Milanito: go ahead! | 16:45 |
| * mkranz feels sorry for being unresponsive. | 16:46 | |
| Milanito | ok since I'm not yet an ambassador, it a message for the future, but I try to get involved in the community, actually working with the french trad team, and we are gathereing some people from the french forum in paris | 16:46 |
| valent | ? | 16:47 |
| Milanito | and I'd be very happy to meet and share information with people based in europe | 16:47 |
| mkranz | Milanito: You probably know that there is a quite active Ambassador community in France?! | 16:47 |
| Milanito | yeah I know I"ve also made contact with them | 16:48 |
| mkranz | valent: You will be the next, just hang on for a second. | 16:48 |
| Milanito | but since I'm here why not say so too ^^ | 16:48 |
| valent | where will these EMEA meetings take place? Which countries? In Croatia for example I just statred to be ambassador.... | 16:48 |
| valent | sorry | 16:48 |
| mkranz | Milanito: You're welcome of course! | 16:48 |
| mkranz | I just wanted to make sure that you know about it :) | 16:48 |
| Milanito | for example there will be next friday a meeting about fedora with some guy of the french forums | 16:48 |
| Milanito | eof | 16:49 |
| mkranz | valent: What do you mean with "EMEA meetings"? | 16:49 |
| valent | where will these EMEA meetings take place? Which countries? In Croatia for example I just statred to be ambassador.... | 16:50 |
| valent | and there isn't really some community but I'm willing to travel somewhere to a fedora emea meeting in a country not too far from croatia. | 16:50 |
| valent | I mean emea meetings with max | 16:50 |
| spevack | valent: i will be traveling to many events throughout emea | 16:50 |
| valent | eof | 16:50 |
| spevack | valent: one of the goals that we have with our increased funding for events | 16:50 |
| spevack | is specifically in order to help Ambassadors with travel costs from time to time | 16:50 |
| spevack | so that people who are spread in different countries | 16:50 |
| spevack | all have a chance to meet face to face | 16:50 |
| valent | ? | 16:50 |
| spevack | go ahead | 16:51 |
| valent | That is clear to me... but you still don't know where exactly | 16:51 |
| valent | that is why I wanted to know. | 16:51 |
| valent | eof | 16:51 |
| spevack | well, LinuxTag in Berlin is the next really big event that many Fedora people will be at. | 16:51 |
| spevack | beyond that, I have to look at the list.... | 16:51 |
| spevack | one of the things that we will discuss | 16:52 |
| spevack | as a community | 16:52 |
| valent | ok, I'll be reading your blog and stocking you :) | 16:52 |
| spevack | once I am settled in Europe | 16:52 |
| mkranz | spevack: By the way. Do you already know where exactly in Europe you want to settle? :) | 16:52 |
| spevack | is having one or two "Fedora Ambassador Days" where we gather people together. Maybe one in Western Europe (using LinuxTag) and something else in Eastern Europe. | 16:52 |
| mkranz | Not that Europe is really big but ... | 16:52 |
| mkranz | ;) | 16:52 |
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| spevack | mkranz: all the conversations I have had with HR have focused on my "home base" being the Netherlands. | 16:53 |
| spevack | but i will do a good bit of travel to various places... compared to getting around the US I am not too worried :) | 16:53 |
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| spevack | any other questions for me? | 16:54 |
| valent | nope | 16:54 |
| GeroldKa | hi all | 16:54 |
| mkranz | spevack: Ah, great. Bring some Regenstiefel then. | 16:54 |
| spevack | valent: we'll stay in touch. we know where to find each other ;) | 16:54 |
| spevack | hi GeroldKa! | 16:54 |
| mkranz | GeroldKa: Great to see you. | 16:55 |
| GeroldKa | sorry for beeing late :-( | 16:55 |
| mkranz | GeroldKa: No prob at all. | 16:55 |
| fcrippa | GeroldKa: jusy in time | 16:55 |
| spevack | well, unless GeroldKa wants to give a quick update about LinuxTag, I think we are almost done? | 16:55 |
| GeroldKa | was with a accident (Volleyball) at the hospital | 16:55 |
| GeroldKa | but not me :-) | 16:55 |
| mkranz | GeroldKa: Lucky you! | 16:55 |
| mkranz | GeroldKa: I wonder, if you would like to give a brief status of the preparation of LinuxTag? | 16:56 |
| mkranz | Just a quick one? | 16:56 |
| mkranz | And then we are through for tonight. | 16:56 |
| GeroldKa | well ... | 16:56 |
| GeroldKa | I asked the team for an update but I don't receive any responds till now | 16:56 |
| GeroldKa | we have a reserved booth ... | 16:57 |
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| GeroldKa | we have a lot of things planed | 16:57 |
| GeroldKa | we have a confirmed and reserved room contingent in Berlin | 16:57 |
| GeroldKa | and we have a lot of VIPs at Linuxtag | 16:57 |
| GeroldKa | that's all at the moment :-( | 16:57 |
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| spevack | AndreasR: tell Gerold to smile! | 16:58 |
| GeroldKa | unfortunatly I'm waiting for trouble shooting contest, also confirmation of FUDCon | 16:58 |
| AndreasR | sir , yes , sir | 16:58 |
| mkranz | GeroldKa: No prob at all. | 16:58 |
| AndreasR | Gerold smile | 16:58 |
| GeroldKa | :-) | 16:58 |
| AndreasR | max.. | 16:58 |
| mkranz | That's a big smile, indeed. | 16:58 |
| mkranz | Okay. | 16:58 |
| GeroldKa | one "leader" to rule them all ........ | 16:59 |
| GeroldKa | *g* | 16:59 |
| mkranz | I'd like to finish then with the official part of the meeting. | 16:59 |
| mkranz | And then we might have some virtual beer together. | 16:59 |
| mkranz | ;) | 16:59 |
| mkranz | Anything to add by anyone? | 16:59 |
| * spevack will buy people real beer in Berlin | 16:59 | |
| mkranz | 5 | 16:59 |
| mkranz | 4 | 16:59 |
| valent | +1 | 16:59 |
| mkranz | 3 | 16:59 |
| GeroldKa | ! | 16:59 |
| mkranz | Shit. | 17:00 |
| spevack | thank you everyone -- please email me with anything you need | 17:00 |
| mkranz | GeroldKa: go ahead! | 17:00 |
| GeroldKa | I take that point Max, and I'll remember you .... | 17:00 |
| mkranz | Ah, okay. | 17:00 |
| GeroldKa | day by day :-P | 17:00 |
| mkranz | 2 | 17:00 |
| GeroldKa | eof | 17:00 |
| mkranz | 1 | 17:00 |
| * mkranz is ringing the bell. | 17:00 | |
| spevack | mkranz: thanks for leading the meeting | 17:00 |
| mkranz | See you next time then. | 17:00 |
| jmbuser | :-D | 17:00 |
| AndreasR | have a good night or whatever | 17:00 |
| AndreasR | will need coffee | 17:00 |
| zydoon | good night everyone and thank you | 17:00 |
| mkranz | spevack: You're welcome! | 17:01 |
| mkranz | Thank you all for attending this call tonight. I wish you a pleasant night - Gute Nacht! See/read you next month. | 17:01 |
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| fcrippa | Bye bye | 17:01 |
| * kital is back from Open Expo Day 1 | 17:02 | |
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| -!- mkranz changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: No meeting at the moment. | 17:05 | |
| rsc | kital: was it nice? | 17:05 |
| kital | yes - alan spend his whole day with us | 17:05 |
| rsc | Cox? | 17:06 |
| kital | ja | 17:06 |
| rsc | did you use handcuffs that he stood so long at Fedora booth? ;) | 17:06 |
| kital | he was sitting | 17:06 |
| kital | and we had fun | 17:07 |
| kital | i will write down | 17:07 |
| rsc | cool :) | 17:07 |
| GeroldKa | rsc, | 17:07 |
| GeroldKa | have you had contact with Jens | 17:07 |
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| GeroldKa | about the "troubles" | 17:08 |
| rsc | GeroldKa: not yet. Am I lacking some information? | 17:08 |
| GeroldKa | you are | 17:08 |
| rsc | ahhh. Mail/redhat-spam shows, yes. | 17:09 |
| GeroldKa | read me e-mail befor you 'mv /dev/null' them | 17:09 |
| rsc | hm. Your mail got spam points. | 17:09 |
| GeroldKa | :-( | 17:11 |
| rsc | haha. You wrote too many question marks for to less text, thus spam. | 17:12 |
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| valent | good night | 17:27 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Mar 13 00:00:52 2008 | ||
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