--- Log opened Wed Mar 26 11:04:41 2008
* viking-ice goes getting a cup full of coffee :)11:06
wwoodsFirst thing11:08
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F9Beta review11:08
wwoodsF9Beta is out! Yay!11:08
wwoodsI want to give some special thanks to jds2001 for helping out a *lot* with the testing11:09
wwoods(aka JonStanley on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/Beta)11:09
poelcat+1 !11:09
f13a bit +111:09
EvilBobjds2001 rocks11:10
wwoodsYeah we need to clone him off a few times.11:10
wwoodsand a couple other "thanks"es to jlaska and warren for pitching in as well11:10
wwoodsas for the rest of you lazy bums...11:11
* wwoods kidding, kidding11:11
warrenI helped?11:11
wwoodswarren: you're listed as the tester for at least one test case11:11
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wwoodsSo overall, I feel like the Beta testing went pretty well11:12
wwoodsno major panics, and the only big last-minute change was reverting a *previous* big change11:12
wwoods(the evdev weirdness)11:12
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wwoodsBut you'll note.. we don't really have a TestPlan for Live images11:13
wwoodsthat's not cool!11:13
* jlaska tunes in after another meeting11:13
jlaskajds2001: real nice work! :)11:13
viking-icewe are still faced with keyboard layout/model weirdness other than US...11:14
wwoodsviking-ice: really? I thought that reverting the evdev changes had reverted most of that (although you may need to clean out your xorg.conf to the pre-evdev state)11:14
wwoodsooh, I see a testing report on -test-list from viking-ice - thanks!11:15
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wwoodsso, yes, I'd like to put together a TestPlan for Fedora9Live (like http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install)11:16
wwoodsso we have a plan for testing Live when the Preview Release comes11:16
wwoodsjlaska: is there a template for test plans? 11:17
jlaskawwoods: darn right11:17
* wwoods too lazy to search the wiki11:17
wwoodsI know there's a testcase template11:17
wwoodssomeday we'll have a tool that's better than the wiki for this stuff11:17
jlaskawwoods: brain storm ... what sort of topics would you like to see covered?11:17
wwoods(anyone who wants to volunteer for that, talk to me and I will shower you with lavish praise)11:18
jlaskawwoods: I have to say I *love* wiki for the documentation side of this (not so much the results ... but it works)11:18
wwoodsjlaska: yeah, probably just a wiki and a couple clever things to track what's in the wiki and whatnot11:18
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wwoodslessee. Live test cases.11:18
wwoodsboot from media, boot from USB stick11:18
wwoodsUSB with persistence11:18
wwoodstest the 'verify image' function11:19
jlaskawwoods: good side-topic ... which of this is installation related vs something_else (e.g. persistence)?11:19
wwoodsjeremy: do the live images still do run-from-memory?11:19
wwoodsjlaska: well, there should be a couple minor installation tests here11:19
jeremywwoods: we don't show it as an option.  the bits are all still there11:19
wwoodssince we allow you to install from Live11:19
jlaskawwoods: yeah, clumens mentioned during the last FUDCON of adding an InstallationSourceLiveCd test11:20
wwoodsbut other than the funky way we write the image, installing Live is a proper subset of the normal installer cases11:20
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wwoodsat least for partitioning 11:20
wwoodsno choice of package selection or install source 11:21
wwoodsnor UI really11:21
wwoodsit's so much simpler.. so.. beautifully easy to test.. 11:21
* wwoods in love11:21
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wwoodser. ahem. anyway.11:21
wwoodspartitioning is covered by Fedora9Install so we really only need a couple of simple install tests to make sure it's DTRT11:22
wwoodslike: normall install (fill drive), resizing target system (esp. if the target is NTFS)11:22
wwoodstesting RAID / encryption / etc can be left to the normal install test11:22
wwoodssince it should be exactly the same codepaths in both places11:22
wwoodsanyway, we can fill in the blanks there later11:24
wwoodssuffice it to say: Live test plan needed before PR11:24
wwoodsanything else people want to say about the testing of f9beta and how we could improve before f9pr/f9final?11:26
poelcatwwoods: how do the test matrixes work... IOW the beta matrix was filled out before beta shipped... is there another matrix to fill out in the meantime or how does it work?11:26
wwoodspoelcat: the test results basically constitute acceptance criteria11:26
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wwoodsin other words: rel-eng makes candidates, we test 'em (and put results up on the wiki)11:26
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wwoodsonce we run out of time, if the results are good enough we ship11:27
poelcatonce something ships do we track test results after that?11:27
wwoodsif anyone's doing testing, sure11:28
wwoodsthat's welcomed and encouraged11:28
wwoodsbut it's not required11:28
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poelcati'd like to help out more as I assume others would too... just wondering how to do that w/o a framework11:29
poelcatin the period between now and PR11:29
poelcatIOW if we've released the beta to get community testing11:30
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poelcatwhere can the community record its results?11:30
wwoodssame place11:31
viking-iceone question are the exact same images in f9pr and fr9final , just wondering if we don't need to test final for some time. as in the final release images needs let's say ca a week of testing before given to public and if something is needs fixing and gets fixed another couple of days of testing are needed for that *fixed final*11:31
wwoodsviking-ice: f9pr is *intended* to be pretty much final 11:31
wwoodsbut we *always* end up pulling in a bunch of last-minute fixes11:32
viking-icesweet ok.. but we cant put fixes in final and then release it without testing..11:32
viking-icebecause those fixes might break some other stuff..11:32
wwoodsright.. the way it works is.. we'll get f9pr11:32
wwoodstest, find bugs, they get fixed, new snapshot11:32
wwoodsthat will repeat until we're really really close to finished 11:33
wwoodswe'll call that f9rc (release candidate) - that's supposed to happen.. a couple days before f9final, I forget when11:33
wwoodsso then we have a week to find any last-minute showstopper bugs11:33
poelcatwwoods: oh I thought that would get too confusing because you aren't testing the same bits and thus the results are comparable?11:33
poelcats/are/are not11:34
wwoodsif nothing insanely bad happens, f9rc becomes f9final11:34
wwoodsand then we party11:34
wwoodspoelcat: the f9beta bits are frozen; people can test f9beta and report its status on the results page11:34
wwoodsbut rawhide has moved on11:34
poelcatbut maybe i've been tainted by too much 'enterprise' testing ;-)11:34
wwoodsso there's more value in just testing rawhide and filing bugs11:35
poelcatokay i see what you are saying... so people testing 'the beta' can put results in the matrix11:35
poelcatbut there is no matrix for beta+updates (rawhide)?11:35
wwoodswe'd need a new matrix every day11:36
wwoodsthat way lies madness11:36
wwoodswe want to automate tier111:36
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wwoodsso we actually *do* get an auto-generated matrix, every day, for rawhide11:36
wwoodsbut filling it out by hand is insanity11:36
wwoodsdoes that make sense?11:37
poelcatyes, i agree and I'm also mulling over a proposing a new model that is somewhere in between11:38
wwoodsmull away, sir. I'd be happy to hear about it11:38
wwoodsviking-ice: so getting back to your question - we get f9pr (preview release) to test, that's 10 April11:39
wwoodsthen a bunch of snapshots, then 22 April we'll have the f9rc which *really* should be the final bits11:39
poelcatwwoods: will do if I can come up with something that makes sense11:40
wwoodsassuming there's nothing horribly wrong with f9rc, we release it as F9 (final) on 29 April11:40
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wwoodsif we find something really bad we hit the brakes and delay the release until it's fixed.11:42
viking-iceok well in theory thinks should just improve from here ;)  ( Feature freeze )11:42
wwoodstrue enough11:42
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Focused testing for rawhide11:42
wwoodsokay, not a lot of time left11:42
wwoodsso there's some big new things in F911:43
wwoods1) packagekit replaced pup/pirut11:43
wwoods2) NetworkManager by default11:43
wwoods3) upstart replaced sysvinit11:43
wwoods4) firefox311:43
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wwoodsif you're just following along with rawhide you might not realize these things had all changed 11:44
wwoodsyou'll still have pup/pirut, you might not be using NM, etc.11:44
wwoodsso we need to tell testers: this is what's new and shiny, please please test it 11:44
wwoodsI'm especially worried about PackageKit11:44
wwoodsit needs to be polished11:45
* jwb hates the PackageKit11:45
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viking-icehad noticed that had both before clean install with fc9-beta11:45
jwboops, sorry11:45
wwoodsif you hate it, file bugs11:45
wwoodsfile bugs like crazy11:45
wwoodsfile bugs until they bash it into shape and you love it11:45
wwoodsor until they are crushed under the mountain of bugs and we can revert to pup/pirut11:46
wwoodsso: are there other big changes that we need to notify people about and ask for extra, focused testing there11:46
wwoodsicedtea -> openjdk might be another thing11:46
wwoodsswfdec maybe?11:46
wwoodsviking-ice: I'm gonna guess you'll vote for keyboard stuff here?11:47
viking-iceto put it mildly yes ;)11:47
wwoodsviking-ice: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2008-March/msg00710.html might be helpful?11:48
viking-icehave already been throught the whole evdev madness..11:48
wwoodsotherwise.. file bugs, ask in #fedora-devel and/or ask ajax11:48
wwoodsbecause I thought that was supposed to be back to pre-evdev semi-sanity11:49
wwoodsso if it's still weird for you, that's a bug11:49
viking-iceas soon as I have configure keyboard correctly it's no problem11:49
viking-icebut it does seem to be getting the keyboard layout as I chose it in anaconda11:49
wwoodsinteresting. I'll try to play around a bit and make sure everything's sorted out there11:50
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wwoodsanyway, if there's other suggestions, I'd like to hear 'em11:51
viking-icehave 3 other freshly install beta... to get clean testing.. ( am updating the first install as we speak )11:51
wwoodsI'll send mail to -test-list and probably -devel-list requesting testing be focused on the.. 5 things mentioned (pk, nm, upstart, ff3, evdev)11:51
wwoodspeople will probably reply with suggestions on-list11:51
wwoodsso that'll be good.11:52
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc.11:52
wwoodsokay! anything else we should discuss?11:52
viking-iceworld domination.. google a life threat..11:52
viking-iceto the empire11:52
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wwoodssomeday we shall absorb google into the Fedora collective11:53
wwoodsbut first: Microsoft has got to go11:54
wwoodsanyway. Triage meeting is about to start11:54
wwoodsso I'll wrap up here11:55
wwoodsthanks for your time, everyone!11:55
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule11:56
--- Log closed Wed Mar 26 11:56:26 2008

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