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f13rdieter_away: what was the thing you were pinging me about?01:27
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-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init11:00
wwoodsmeeting tiiime. 11:00
wwoodsf13, jds2001, jlaska, poelcat: ping11:01
wwoods(you've got a moment - I need to grab a drink)11:01
* jlaska 11:01
* f13 at OLS11:02
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wwoodsBLERG okay sorry11:06
* poelcat here11:06
wwoodsSo Alpha was frozen (or, more accurately, snapshotted) yesterday11:07
wwoodsthat's the main thing we need to discuss11:07
wwoodsso before we get bogged down in that11:07
jlaskawwoods: how was it frozen ... is there a koji tag for the alpha?11:07
wwoodsjlaska: yep. f10-alpha11:07
jlaskagotcha, thx11:08
wwoodsThe Alpha is a non-blocking freeze - basically we take a snapshot of rawhide and compose from that11:08
wwoodsrawhide continues moving forward as normal11:08
wwoodsbut if there are fixes we need in alpha, we (or the package maintainer) need to file a ticket with releng11:08
jlaskaand only approved alpha blocking fixes are tagged w/ f10-alpha ?11:08
wwoodspretty much, yes11:08
wwoodsbut, let's just be clear - any non-Alpha stuff we need to discuss?11:09
jlaskawwoods: what's the current status of the alpha blocker list?11:09
wwoodstestopia-type things? other ideas?11:10
alindebewhat's the status of the testopia replacement?11:10
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wwoodsalindebe: no idea, haven't heard from dmalcolm. I just pinged him and asked if he could let us know what's up11:11
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wwoodswe were supposed to find out more last week, so hopefully there's some news11:12
wwoodsdmalcolm: ah, welcome! and thanks for comin'11:12
dmalcolmThere's a draft of the FLOSS exception for ExtJS available at http://extjs.com/products/floss-exception.php11:12
dmalcolmhave sent spot that link, though I believe he's currently somewhere near the US/Canadian border (or at White Castle, if very lost)11:13
dmalcolmspot: around?11:13
* wwoods guessing no11:14
wwoodsstill, sounds like forward progress is being made on the legal issues. does this seem like we'll be able to just wait it out and use Testopia proper?11:14
dmalcolm(context is the possible licensing conflict between testopia/extjs; see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450013#c21 )11:15
dmalcolmI hope that we will be, I would prefer not to have to do a lot of hacking to deal with this11:15
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jlaskadmalcolm: 'hacking' ... like manually removing the extjs stuff ... or turbozilla style hacking?11:16
dmalcolmI haven't been working on the turbogears reimplementation in the meantime11:16
wwoodsindeed. so is it too optimistic to say: use the wiki until the license exception gets approved?11:16
dmalcolmjlaska: both would be substantial amounts of work11:16
wwoodsbecause it's sounding like that may be cleared up fairly soon11:17
jlaskadmalcolm: no doubt ... just wanted to clarify11:17
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dmalcolmwwoods: I don't have a good timetable on the process, alas11:17
dmalcolmwwoods: suspect that using the wiki is the best compromise at the moment11:17
jlaskawwoods: migrating results from the wiki into testopia won't be tremendously difficult11:18
wwoodshm. Well, final freeze is October 1. would it be foolish to assume it will be worked out (one way or the other) by then?11:18
dmalcolm(just a pain to have to use the wiki in the meantime)11:18
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dmalcolmwwoods: I don't think we can guarantee a licensing resolution by then.  However, if it looks like taking that long, I may be ablre to convince my boss at RH to bite the bullet and hack on this fulltime for a good chunk of time11:19
dmalcolms/hack/schedule me to hack/g11:19
dmalcolmI _hope_ it will be resolved soon though, of course11:20
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wwoodswell, we'll go with Wiki as the plan of record for F10Alpha. Hopefully by Beta time we'll know whether we're going to be using the Wiki for the whole F10 cycle11:21
jlaskain the meantime, I have draft of a wiki page we can use to record alpha results up for review ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora10Install/Alpha11:21
wwoodserr. wiki is the plan of record for Alpha and Beta11:21
wwoodsjlaska: nice. is that derived from what we had in testopia?11:22
jlaskathe draft only includes baseline regression tests at this time ... I have not yet pulled in new post-f9 cases11:22
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jlaskaI could use links/pointers on what's missing11:22
jlaskabut this wiki is an attempt to track execution of the non-functional test cases defined in the test plan at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora10Install11:23
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dmalcolmjlaska: http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/turbozilla/testplan/2 ?11:23
jlaskadmalcolm: perfect, thx11:23
wwoodsoh nice!11:23
dmalcolmjlaska: and http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/turbozilla/product/3 for that matter11:24
dmalcolmthere appear to be a few others in there11:24
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wwoodsyeah, it should be a superset of the rawhide plan - http://publictest2.fedoraproject.org/turbozilla/testplan/1211:25
wwoodswhich has stuff like KVM11:25
wwoodsthat's missing from the installation plan11:25
wwoods('cuz I added it the day before we stopped using testopia, doh)11:25
jlaskaI'm still debating how best to model KVM ... since that seems more like an environment11:25
jlaskabut can certainly just be an additional test case in the meantime11:26
jlaskauntil we have tools support11:26
* jlaska envisions several future environments (XEN PV, KVM, VmWare ...)11:26
wwoodsexcept kvm-i686 is different from kvm-x86_6411:27
wwoodsso it's actually a bunch of environments, if you're gonna model it that way11:27
jlaskaI wouldn't have any objection to "i386 (KVM)", "i386 (Xen PV)" ...11:27
jlaskathe test plan wouldn't call for complete execution coverage in all environments ... but perhaps a representative sampling11:28
wwoodsanyway, for the moment we'll treat it as a simple test case for F10a11:28
wwoodsI guess we should talk alpha specifics now?11:28
wwoodsunless there's further business?11:29
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-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F10Alpha - blockers11:30
wwoodsokay, now we get our hands dirty11:30
jlaskaare folks pleased with the testresult wiki format ... are there any suggestions there that might help mitigate wiki edit pain11:30
wwoodserr duh11:30
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wwoodsjlaska: nah, it looks like it'll be pretty OK.. we don't even need to worry about the locking problem as much anymore11:31
wwoodsso that's nice11:31
wwoodsplus changing the color of a line is much more obvious11:31
wwoodsno, I think it'll be better than it was with Moin11:31
jlaskaright ... different sections for each arch and %step11:31
jlaskacool, thx11:32
jlaskawe can easily adjust ... so just shout as issues surface or coverage gaps emerge11:32
wwoodsso f13's at OLS but at some point he will magically create CD images and such11:34
wwoodsand then we will start ripping that up11:34
wwoodsfirst we need to make sure we've got all the major problems on the F10a tracker11:34
wwoodsso yeah, hitting that link in the topic.. we've got11:35
wwoodsbug 45173311:35
f13wwoods: I'll try to make a full pungi compose of today's rawhide11:35
wwoodspjones is also at OLS IIRC, and that's just a warning, so I think I might drop that to F10Blocker11:35
f13likely not until late tonight11:35
f13wwoods: pjones is just on PTO11:35
wwoodsbuggbot: are you okay, buddy?11:35
wwoodsf13: oh, okay11:36
* f13 wonders11:36
f13I bet I could use 'test3' to do the compose11:36
f13although that's not available to the full public11:37
f13just people who can get to bastian.11:37
wwoodsbug 452509 - Firefox randomly crashes with segmentation fault in gmail..11:37
wwoodsI don't think we can block the release for that one, sadly11:37
wwoodsfirefox is a big damn mess right now11:37
alindebeit really is11:37
wwoodsthere's legal stuff going on and security stuff11:37
alindebeplus the crashing?11:37
alindebeIt crashes at everything11:37
wwoodsso bugfixes are being held back because of legal problems11:37
f13hrm, I thought we had a grace period on fixes11:38
wwoodsbut a new package got shoved out the door because of security bugs11:38
jlaskawwoods: what are the plans to address that issue ... do they know the root cause yet?11:38
wwoodswhich broke dependencies in like 378 packages11:38
wwoodswhich have all had bugs filed against them11:38
wwoodsjlaska: I don't know - there's a legal-related SEP field around the entire thing11:38
wwoods(that's Someone Else's Problem, btw)11:39
wwoodscaillon is either busy or hamstrung by legal but he's not saying much11:39
wwoodshe's definitely aware of the problems though11:39
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jlaskado we provide a list of known issues in the milestone announcements?11:40
wwoodstypically, yeah11:40
wwoodsit's usually populated by whatever's left on the tracker11:40
wwoodsplus any other notes we provide to whoever's writing the announcement11:41
wwoodse.g. on the test results page11:41
jlaskaperfect ... sounds like that'll be one left on the tracker11:41
* f13 tries to invite caillon here.11:41
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f13caillon: hey, we're talking about F10 Alpha, and current Firefox issues11:42
f13can you give us an update and an expectation for Alpha, which we'll be spinning early next week?11:42
caillonany context, specifically?11:42
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caillonor should i just ramble?11:43
f13ramble is probably OK, but there is a /lot/ of people grumbling about instability11:43
f13and now a ton of broken deps11:43
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wwoodsthere's the ongoing broken dependency problems, and bug 452509 (crashing on gmail) and bug.. hmm. ff3-crash-hunspell11:43
wwoodsbut yeah, we'd be happy to hear an Official Rant about what's up11:43
caillonwwoods, ff3-crash-hunspell is fixed as of 3am11:44
caillonthough i need to update the bug11:44
mceplwwoods: caillon was working on ff3-crash-hunspell yesterday -- don't know the results though11:44
drago01mcepl: it works and its tagged for alpha ;)11:45
caillonthe broken deps thing was unfortunate, and due to a miscommunication and bad timing on various issues coming together.11:45
wwoodsfrom what I understand there was a security fix that needed to be pushed and couldn't wait for stuff to be rebuilt11:45
wwoodsso the choice was: broken deps or expoitable security hole. is that accurate?11:45
f13isn't that always the case with FF security updates?11:45
caillonwwoods, right.  there was that too.  i try to build things when i can but this past time with F9, i just ran out of time to do so.11:45
caillonalso... most of the things that really broke people were broken to begin with....11:46
wwoodsf13: pretty much, although I thought xulrunner was going to let people do deps like 'gecko-libs >= 1.9' so minor updates wouldn't break stuff11:46
f13wwoods: except they all use the non-stable API11:46
caillonthings that use xulrunner's stable API should not need a rebuild, but they were requiring a specific version instead of >=11:46
caillonthings that use the unstable API still need to require a specific version11:47
caillonthe things that broke most people were stable things that pretended they were unstable11:47
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wwoodsand, presumably, the things that use the unstable API need to have their maintainers shaken 11:47
caillonso I was not expecting eg. nspluginwrapper to require a rebuild11:47
drago01nspluginwrapper does not even use the api11:48
caillonit used to11:48
caillonso that was the one that broke the most people11:48
drago01and totem11:48
f13ugh, so we need a good cleanup effort of these packages.11:48
f13to get them to require the right things11:48
caillonright.  i intend to do that soon.11:48
wwoodshave those packages been fixed? are there bugs filed for the ones that need(ed) fixing?11:49
cailloni don't know11:49
wwoodswe should probably set up a xulrunner-deps tracker bug11:49
caillonthe ones that broke people should have been fixed already11:49
cailloni'm out all next week, so i will get to it the following week11:49
wwoodsso we can track this (and give the public a peek into what was wrong and what's fixed)11:49
mceplthere is now steaming pile of bugs people complaining about almost anything broken -- trying to close them as duplicate as they are coming11:49
drago01there is breake in rawhide too (ex epiphany needs a rebuild)11:49
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cailloni can do that11:50
f13caillon: before you leave, what is the state of firefox itself?  Deps can be fixed by other people, I'm concerned about FF itself for alpha11:50
drago01caillon: ok11:50
caillonit would help if i got those mails11:50
caillon(i bet they go to /dev/null aka gecko-maint)11:50
caillonmaybe, it should go to the person who built the last package for the broken thing as well?11:51
caillonor cc the people with cancommit11:51
caillonor something11:51
f13yeah, might be doable11:52
f13I should look at that for teh latter half of f10 development11:52
caillonf13, the only major complaint i heard was the instability.  that should be fixed as of
cailloner, .fc1011:52
mceplwwoods: take a look at RHBZ 456185 and 45594911:52
f13getting the fas ID of the person whom built the package is easy enough via koji.11:52
f13caillon: ok, I hope so.  I don't know if that will actually be in rawhide today or not, once rawhide actually lands11:52
caillonf13, i'll comment in the bug and i bet people will test it11:53
caillonit's hacky for now, but the build system for mozilla is a little tricky.11:54
caillonbut at least the crashes should be gone11:54
cailloni'll have a few people internally who were complaining about it give it a whirl11:55
wwoodsmcepl: oh, so 456185 was closed as a dup of 455949, except the reporter reopened the bug because it was a different package pulling in xulrunner?11:55
caillonf13, i'll note that the crashes were not actually caused by me specifically, but because hunspell added a hack to make firefox link against the new ABI.11:55
mceplwwoods: yeah, my thoughts exactly -- people just don't understand that things need to be fixed and they protect their precious bug like a baby. Oh well11:55
caillonit should have simply failed to build11:55
mceplcaillon: so is there a hope that we will have XR using system hunspell again?11:56
caillonmcepl, yes11:56
caillonjust not today.11:56
f13caillon: sure, I wasn't trying to point any fingers at all11:56
mceplof course11:58
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f13ok xulrunner- is what will be in today's rawhide.11:58
mceplf13: s/-1.fc10/-2.fc10/ right?11:59
wwoodscaillon: so is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=452509 suspected to be a dup of the hunspell problem?11:59
f13mcepl: no, -2 missed the compose cutoff11:59
mceplf13: OK, but it doesn't help hunspell crash, right?12:00
f13that was my point.12:00
f13people needing the fix will have to go directly to koji for it today12:00
mceplok, sorry12:01
wwoodsokay, so anything with incorrect deps against specific xulrunner versions should be filed in bugzilla and made to block F10Alpha and/or F10Blocker12:03
wwoodsI guess both?12:03
wwoodsyeah, both. Alpha is just a tracker, not all the bugs on there are necessarily blockers12:03
mceplwwoods: and if possible closed as dupe of 455949?12:03
* f13 has to run to his talk.12:03
wwoodsf13: cool, see you12:03
wwoodsmcepl: user bugs filed about broken deps should be closed as dup of 455949, yes12:04
* jlaska context switches12:04
wwoodsbut we need to audit packages that require xulrunner/gecko-libs and file bugs where those reqs are wrong12:04
caillonwwoods, i'll go through them myself in 2 weeks12:04
caillonto make sure that everything which has deps on gecko has the right ones12:05
caillonin F9 and 1012:05
wwoodscaillon: okay, cool. is there any way we can run through that stuff in your absence to make it easier for you, or should we just leave it to you?12:05
drago01caillon: for the apps that use the stable api ... can we just remove the hardcoded dep? (rpm should handle it)12:05
caillonwwoods, if you want to do so, then the rule is:12:06
caillonif you BuildRequire: gecko-devel-unstable, you must both BR and Req a specific version.  e.g.
caillonif you BuildRequire: xulrunner-devel-unstable, change it to gecko-devel-unstable, and follow the above.12:07
caillonif you BuildRequire: gecko-devel and not -unstable, you can use >= 1.9 for the reqs12:08
caillonif you BuildRequire: xulrunner-devel you should change it to gecko-devel12:08
caillonalso.  if you use the -unstable, please send me a note.12:09
caillonI keep tabs on them so I can rebuild them for each security update12:09
caillon(also please consider adding me to the ACL or opening it up if it is not)12:09
wwoodsgotcha. Do you want me to put a note on -devel-list (or maybe -devel-announce) with this info, or would you like to do so?12:10
drago01caillon: my question? can we remove Requires: gecko-libs >= 1.9 for packages that Buildrequire: gecko-devel >= 1.9 ?12:11
caillondrago01, no.12:11
drago01so upstream does not bump the soname when breaking the abi?12:11
caillondrago01, we'd be up to so version MAX_INT by now12:12
drago01caillon: just saw that there is no soname at all ... ok ;)12:12
caillondrago01, right.  so, to make sure that you actually are using a compat version, please keep those in12:13
caillonwwoods, if you want, go for it.12:13
wwoodsI'll try to sum up this discussion, so people understand what's up and how stuff can get fixed12:14
caillonanyway, i've got to run.  i've been trying to leave home and drive to the office for the past 2 hours, and i have a meeting soon and will have to do take out from the cafeteria.12:14
wwoodsand so maybe they'll stop filing bug reports and demanding that his never happen again12:14
wwoodscaillon: no problem, thanks very much for the info12:14
caillonleet me know later if there are more questions12:14
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wwoodscaillon: will do12:14
wwoodsokay so that's bug 452509 covered. heh.12:15
wwoodsit's past lunchtime now so I'll race through the rest12:15
wwoods452639 - reboot and shutdown are missing.12:15
wwoodsshould be fixed in today's rawhide / latest gnome-session package (which is already tagged for f10-alpha)12:15
wwoodsbut make sure gnome-session-2.23.5-0.2008.07.21.3.fc10 Does The Right Thing12:16
wwoodsok next: 452799 - segfault in libdevmapper booting with encrypted root + plymouth.12:16
wwoodsI haven't tested encrypted root + plymouth12:16
wwoodsthere's also 453678 - booting with encrypted root fails unless you have plymouth installed.12:17
wwoodsIIRC the former is an upgrade from F9, the latter is a fresh rawhide install12:17
wwoodsalindebe: can you try to verify https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=453678 later? 12:19
wwoodsbasically just do a minimal install with an encrypted root filesystem12:19
wwoodsand see if it freaks out12:19
wwoodsalthough.. minimal might install plymouth. dunno. that'd still be a good thing to test.12:19
wwoodsI'll check on the F9 upgrade case (i'm doing upgrade testing anyway right now)12:19
wwoodsaaand that's all the blockers we have for the moment.12:20
wwoodsanyone still awake? want to propose new blockers? 12:20
wwoodsanything unreported that we need to add to the list?12:20
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wwoodsokay then. meeting over, lunch time GO, bring any proposed blockers (or unfiled bugs) to #fedora-qa12:21
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule12:22
--- Log closed Wed Jul 23 12:22:17 2008

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